A question about rendering

[jblank37]

I have searched for the answer to this, but I have come up short as for a simple explanation. I am using VS 10 Plus. In preferences, I have playback method set to high quality playback. Instant playback target is set for preview window. I believe that I have read where you should maybe only render one time to prevent lose of quality. Is this true as for rendering during the edit stage? I try to stay with the same workflow each time. That is, a lead-in, title, effects, ending credits, and then any additional sound. After adding each one of these, I will play the project back and each time it will render. Is this the correct way to do this or should I have the playback set for instant? I would really appreciate an answer to this and I hope that I have given the correct information.

Thanks very much.

[Black Lab]

Unless you really need to see some detail, I would save the time and set it to Instant. Just my opinion.

[Ken Berry]

First a general comment, then a specific one about high quality previews.

You don't actually tell us what format your video is in. If it is in DV format, it can in any case be re-rendered many times with no discernible loss of quality.

But the story is different if your files are mpeg-2. Some would say you shouldn't even be editing mpegs unless it is done with a special mpeg edit ing program. Others, like me, say you can render 2 or 3 times without any degradation with the naked eye if you keep the bitrate and other settings high quality. Yet others say you can re-render more times than that.

As far as high quality previews are concerned, my understanding is that when you have it set to high quality playback, it renders a temporary file which is later automatically erased. If you were to in fact save this temporary file, and then it were re-rendered and re-rendered several times, there would be eventually some noticeable quality loss.

As it is, you have the original (or near-original) files in your timeline, and each time you preview, that new temp file is created, but your original files are still there, in effect untouched.

The only time you would need to worry is if you finished your project (and its high quality previews! ) and went to Share > Create Video File and then rendered it. And then later rendered that new file again and again. Then my earlier comments about editing/rendering mpeg files come into play...

By the way, I have to add that I have never, since I started using Video Studio about 5 years ago with VS7, used High Quality preview. The instant preview is good enough, and certainly much quicker!!

[jblank37]

Jeff, thanks for the quick response. Does this mean that there will be no lose to quality no matter how many times it renders? That is up until you create the MPEG file?

Thanks

[jblank37]

Hi Ken, man you have been a real help here in your explanation. I really appreciate that. Yes, my format is in DV format. Since I have you here or at least maybe get you back let me ask one other question. I have a 2.2 Ghz processor, 1 Gig of ram, two hard drives with alot of space. My camera is a Sony TRV740 DV. Do you think that it will be safe to bypass creating the AVI file or is that something that I will just have to try?

Thanks again.

[2Dogs]

Do you think that it will be safe to bypass creating the AVI file or is that something that I will just have to try?

Hi John,

if what you mean is can you capture directly to MPEG2, then you could try it out. With a 2.2Ghz Pentium 4, it should work. The amount of RAM has little effect on rendering speed and direct to mpeg2 capture. My P4 2.8c can smart render at 17x speed. By current standards, it's a bit of a clunker.

Capturing directly to MPEG2 is a way to avoid the long render time you get when working with avi clips, but you will need to follow the advice given and minimise re-rendering. You'll need to capture your footage at the quality settings you'll use for final output, but using the default settings will allow you to fit about an hour of video onto a single layer (4.5GB) DVD.

When you do render your completed project to a single large MPEG2 file, it will be "Smart Rendered" - and for that your 1GB of RAM will be useful. Smart render should take a fraction of the project duration - perhaps less than 6 minutes for a one hour project, but it will depend on the amount of titles and overlays and transitions you use. Any filters will dramatically increase rendering time.

Bear in mind that if you do have a slow pc, you might opt to have it render your avi project to an MPEG2 file overnight.

[Ken Berry]

Bear in mind also that, with past versions, and it seems now increasingly with VS10, we are getting reports of out of sync video and audio when it comes to smart-rendered mpeg files in particular. If you have such problems, then simply switch off Smart Render. It will greatly increase the time and result in a full render (with the potential loss of quality that could entail) but it often gets around the out of sync problem.

Be aware also that while I have no objections in principle to the idea of capturing and editing mpeg-2, subject to the sort of considerations I outlined, I don't do it myself from DV sources. If I can capture in DV, I continue to do so, and edit in the same format. It avoids even the potential for any of the variety of errors that can occur when capturing and editing mpeg, to occur. Better safe than sorry, is my motto for video editing. And hey, I am mostly retired so have plenty of time on my hands for the extra time involved!!

But try it and see for yourself. If you can capture and edit mpeg to a quality which is acceptable to you, well and good. But if you run into problems, just remember you can always fall back on good old DV.

[jblank37]

2Dogs and Ken, thanks very much for your help on this. I am still just a little bit confused. I know that you have more people to help on here than just me, but please take just a few more minutes and make this a little more simple for me. First let me say that I do not want to take anything away from anyone here, but I have been following Jerry Jones tutorial on VS 10 Plus step by step. I guess the main reason is, is that I have a printout of the tutorial and have had great success with it. My original question on rendering came up when I read that rendering more than once might cause a loss in quality. Here I will say again that I am capturing digital video from a Sony TRV740 DV camera. In staying with this tutorial, my question now is, do I just change the playback method from High Quality Playback to Instant Playback for rendering purposes and continue on? Also, is there any other shortcuts that can be taken? My workflow is as follows----Capture, Edit, Create AVI file, Create MPEG file, then write to DVD. Please help this old fellow out in knowing if I am doing things in the proper way. The tutorial that I am following is listed below.

http://www.jonesgroup.net/media/tutoriallist.htm

Once again, I thank you very much.

[Black Lab]

This is what I do, and I have no problems:

Capture dv via firewire. Edit, create mpeg (no need to create avi file first - it's just an extra render), then burn. I always use Instant Playback.

[jblank37]

Thanks Jeff, I appreciate your response on this. I was hoping to see a simple answer such as this. From what I have been reading here, I was thinking that maybe I could by-pass creating the AVI file. I will do that and also use Instant Playback from now on.

Again, I thank you.

[2Dogs]

workflow is as follows----Capture, Edit, Create AVI file, Create MPEG file, then write to DVD

You don't need to create an AVI file from your VS project - for a one hour project, it will amount to approximately 13.2GB. Although this additional step of yours probably doesn't take very long, and will not reduce the video quality, it's unnecessary, and will just take up space on your hard drive/s.

You should simply omit that step from your workflow, and create an MPEG2 file from your project, which will be around 4.35GB.


To return to your original query about the preview quality - be assured that choosing either instant playback or high quality playback preview settings will have no effect whatsoever on your finished DVD picture quality. Therefore, as Ken has said, there's really no reason to choose high quality playback - unless you particularly want to preview a given transition or effect in high quality. Even then, you should change it right back to instant playback after you've done messing with that segment of your master work. I, like Ken, (and I like Ken!) and probably most people, never choose the high quality preview setting. I feel that Jerry Jones' tutorial should revise that to instant playback, since using the high quality setting will slow your editing process right down.

Although you've made the effort to print out the JJ tutorial, I feel that you might benefit from printing out the pretty succinct "Recommended Procedure" from the "sticky" at the top of the forum, written by John Hunter, and widely and successfully used by many VS users. It will save you time!

Good luck!

Jeff beat me to the post while I was dickering around with fonts!

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

The High Quality Playback option is only used as a playback in the preview screen and has no bearing in the Create Avi file that you perform.
It creates a temp¡¦ file in File ¡V Preferences ¡V Preview tab for folder location.

If you have no problems using Instant Playback then use that, much quicker, but may be a little jerky, maybe.

Now you render to Avi,
with this file you could export the video back to your cam-corder, provided your cam¡¦ has Dv-In port. ( I use this step as I need the backup file)

You could of course rendered to Mpeg, missing the avi step. But choose DVD as the format not mpeg 2.

Regards Trevor

Just noticed Jeff and 2dogs got there first

All the best

[jblank37]

2Dogs, I could not ask for a better explanation than what you have given me here. That really makes it clear for me. I am taking your advise and making me a printout of the "Recommended Procedure". I do want to say that you have made it more clear to me than anything else that I have read, even in the recommended procedure. I HAVE read that more than once. I guess I just needed a more simple answer and again I appreciate that. I thank everyone for their help, not only to me, but the help that I see everyone else receiving also.

Thanks very much.

[jblank37]

Thank you Trevor