OOS but I don't use MPG!! Need help pls...

PowerTooler · Post by **PowerTooler** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:40 pm

Hi there. I have a good known problem called "OOS" by watching a burned DVD with "PowerTools 2". The source video IS NOT an MPG file, it is a WMV [Windows Media Audio/Video], about 1h50mins long and has no OOS on my PC. But when I watch the finished DVD it slowly gets more and more OOS [about a good second at the end]. It takes me more than 25hours to create the DVD so hope you can help me with a good solution.

Here are my settings:
PC system: Windows XP
TV-system: PAL 4.3
Disc-format: DVD
Videodatarate: max. 2500kbps
Audio: LPCM, 48KHz, Stereo
Videofiles: 24Bits, 720x576, 25fps
Project size [HD]: 8,5GB [11,0GB free]
Project size [DVD]: 4,3GB [4,4GB free]

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:24 pm

What makes you think that a highly compressed format, higher compression than mpeg2, should be trouble free when converting it back to mpeg2?

OOS's can be expected when working with highly compressed source files. Where did your source files come from? Can you recapture these to DV-AVI?

PowerTooler · Post by **PowerTooler** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:52 pm

Yes I can create it back to a DV-AVI file but then the size of the clip will be too big for the DVD, that's my tricky problem and I can't cut away something because I need everything of the video from start till end...

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:07 pm

You will gain nothing by now converting it back to DV-AVI. You have not answered my question but now I believe your source comes from a DVD or HDD camera, correct?

If your source files cannot be recaptured from the camcorder to DV-AVI because they are mpeg4 to start with and your camera has no iLink/IEE1394/firewire (all the same thing, just different name for different brands) connector, I'm afraid you are going to be stuck with it. You gain nothing by converting this to DV-AVI. It would have to be converted back to mpeg2 for DVD anyhow and you would lose quality doing it that way.

I have no experience with mpeg editing and, hence, am not sure if a dedicated mpeg editor like Womble or a converter like Super would help you with this.

Hopefully, someone more converse with this will come to your aid.

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:21 am

It doesn't matter what size the dv-avi is, to fit it on a dvd disc. You convert the dv-avi to an mpeg, then to vobs to burn to disc.
What matters is the bitrate set for conversion, this will allow you to fit a 1hr 50min file onto a dvd when you startf rom dv-avi.

I'm not sure how Heinz got his assumption you started with a mpeg2/4 file.

We could do with knowing what the file came from and how you got it on to the pc.

PowerTooler · Post by **PowerTooler** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:56 pm

The file video comes from a DVD, ripped it down to AVI. But I have to edit/cut the original file because the DVD film is not in the right row so I opened it up with SONY Vegas Videos for example.

Do you think if I put a video to DVD PT 2 as MPG with a small size will not become bigger on the DVD when I put in the video as a greater AVI file? I don't know because I hadn't tested it out...

But I can't set down the quality any more because it's already not the best

I could try to rebuild a DVD with an AVI instead of WMV but will it take effect for sure because it will takes me 25hours again to convert this lengh of clip... Or is there something wrong with PowerTools because of this long progress, too???

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:11 pm

It depends on what sort of avi you made.

AVI is just a wrapper and can contain many file types.

I epxect you conversion was from mpeg2 to a divx type avi - this is compressed so you lost quality.
You saved to wmv, this is compressed you lost more quality.
You made your dvd, changing wmv to mpeg2, this is compressed you lost more quality.

What programme are you using to edit and make your dvd? Is it powertools? I've not heard of it.

My take on the matter would be to use an mpeg editor, edit the mpeg file and use this to make your dvd.

You need to learn about dvd production.

Very simply.

You edit your file, save it adn import into your dvd authoring software.
If the file is an mpeg2 dvd compliant one and you use a dvd authoring programme which accepts compliant files it will just take these files as they are and make the vob files which are needed for the dvd layer to read the dvd.

If you use avi or whatever file type the authoring app should convert these files to mpeg2 dvd compliant files, then into vobs and make the dvd.

If you have an dv-avi of 13gb, it is one hour in length. On conversion it is now about 4gb at best quality.
If you take a 2 hour dv-avi, it will be 26gb. When you convert it to mpeg2 you have to compress it more, so you still end up with a file that is 4gb, but poorer in quality.

PowerTooler · Post by **PowerTooler** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:05 pm

The quality of the videofiles were always good until they are on DVD, I always compressed with high-resolution [just DVD to AVI and AVI to WMV] and on the PC the source files have a very good quality. But the quality at the end is not the problem which makes me sick, for this I will find my own solution. It's just about the OOS-phenomenon which becomes greater the father I let the big length video play.

I got my own solution: At the beginning there is no OOS, just greater the nearer to the end. So what would happen if I cut my 1h50min into 2 55min videos for example? Of course there will be a OOS at the end of each file but maybe it will be so small that you wouldn't recognize it by watching, right?

The program I used was ULEAD DVD Workshop, sry I forgot that it's called PowerTools in Germany

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:04 am

Sorry, I should have remembered that as well!!

You are getting out of sync because the first file you are using is an mpeg, each time you convert it it will possibly cause the problem to get worse.

Also it doesn't matter how high quality you chose to save from mpeg to avi to wmv, as each is a lossy format, each save loses quality.

2 hours on a dvd is quite a lot, so compression is high, shown by your figure of 2,500, a high quality dvd will be at 8,000. As you can see you are at less than a third of the high quality bitrate!!!!

Why did you convert the mpeg to avi to wmv and not just use it in PowerTools2

Graham

PowerTooler · Post by **PowerTooler** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:08 pm

Hm I don't use MPEG in the steps. I got the source files in the wrong row on DVD so I rip it down to PC [creating AVI]. Then I recut it and put in some effects [can't do this with PowerTools] but when I save that file, it becomes WMV V9, not MPEG. I think maybe it has something to do with the burning part. I have 2 options to burn the DVD: HIGH SPEED or 2.4x and I always use the first one.

For the quality thing: I have two options of audio and I use LPCM [???] where I found out that I can set up the video-bitrate to 2605 as max. But there is another option:
MPEG-Audio [384kbps]
On this settings I can set up the video bitrate to 3830 as max. A big step more. But then I ask myself if the MPEG-Audio is still the same quality because right now the audio quality is very good [LPCM]. And... "MPEG-Audio"... How the name said [MPEG]...

But maybe I experience the OOS because maybe you are right to say I have MPEG-video files and I hadn't set the audio to MPEG, too. Maybe I should create the DVD with MPEG-Audio for no OOS and it will be a really better video quality, what do you think?

But anyway, seems like you have much experiences in burning DVD's, I don't have, so I am really thankful for your help!