The Dreaded Audio Out of Sync (OOS) Problem

golem95 · Post by **golem95** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:00 pm

I've searched through the forums but haven't been able to find anything which describes the problem I'm having.

My project is about 1h40m, using all DV Type 1 footage from the same camera. I can render a final AVI (using the NTSC DV template) and everything is perfect.

When I take this AVI into a DVD authoring program (i.e. DVDWS2, Nero) the resulting DVD has OOS issues. It starts getting out of sync and then slowly gets more and more out of sync, which makes me think it has something to do with framerate or sampling frequency? In the case of DVDWS2, the audio snaps back IN to sync with about 20 mins to go towards the end. With Nero, it stays out of sync. Weird.

I'm at my wit's end. Has anyone had a similar problem where they can point me in the right direction for things to look at? Thanks.

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:12 pm

Firstly, read http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=8961 and comply.

Secondly, are you encoding from the timeline or from your rendered avi?

Thirdly, what are your project settings and encoding settings?

Fourthly, are you adding any music or other sound tracks? If so, in what format.

[rant]
If you don't tell us what you are doing, how the heck do you think we can help you? My crystal ball works only on 30 and 31 February.
[/rant]

golem95 · Post by **golem95** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:55 pm

Devil wrote:Firstly, read http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=8961 and comply.

Done. Filled out my system profile (except for the motherboard, which I don't have access to right now, since I am doing this via Remote Desktop)

Properties of your source files (format, file size, where did you get it?)
DV Type 1, 24-bit 720x480, ranging in size from a few Gigs to up to 14 Gigs (i.e. full 1-hour capture), NTSC 29.97fps, DV Audio NTSC 48kHz 16-bit, all from Canon XL1.

What devices are involved and their mode of connection?
Firewire 1394

Project Settings
NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
Duration: 1:40:14.26
Edit file format: Microsoft AVI Files
Video tracks: 7
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 4:3, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First
DV Video Encoder -- type 1
DV Audio -- NTSC, 48.000 kHz, 16 Bit, Stereo

Output format (file, DVD, VCD, SVCD)
DVD

PAL or NTSC
NTSC 4:3

Error Codes (if any)
None

Devil wrote:Secondly, are you encoding from the timeline or from your rendered avi?

As I said, I am taking the rendered AVI directly into the authoring programs. The AVI is perfectly in sync.

Devil wrote:Thirdly, what are your project settings and encoding settings?

Project settings listed above, encoding settings as follows:
MPEG files
24 Bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
(DVD-NTSC), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 5500 kbps)
Audio data rate: 256 kbps
AC-3 Audio, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)
(note: I tried LPCM audio as well, with the same problem)

Devil wrote:Fourthly, are you adding any music or other sound tracks? If so, in what format.

Irrelevant to this particular problem. The problem started before adding any additional audio tracks, i.e. the only audio tracks were from the original clips.

Devil wrote:[rant]
If you don't tell us what you are doing, how the heck do you think we can help you? My crystal ball works only on 30 and 31 February.
[/rant]

My apologies. Thank you for putting me on the right path.

cgould · Post by **cgould** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:55 pm

Try rendering the MPEG file from MSpro's timeline instead, and just using the mpg in DVDWS2 (make sure "do not encode compliant files" is checked). if you need separate titles, then make sep. MPGs from the timeline (I use separate timelines in msp8 for that.)
Make sure you have all the patches for both programs installed.

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:06 pm

cgould wrote:Try rendering the MPEG file from MSpro's timeline instead, and just using the mpg in DVDWS2 (make sure "do not encode compliant files" is checked). if you need separate titles, then make sep. MPGs from the timeline (I use separate timelines in msp8 for that.)
Make sure you have all the patches for both programs installed.

It's the "opposite" in DVDWS2 -- you have to tell it to convert by using the "Convert to Disc Template" option in the EDIT step. To avoid re-encoding, you leave that box unchecked (both Video and Audio). If that box is ghosted, then DVDWS does not think you have compliant files...

One thing to check - in the BURN step of DVDWS -- where are your Work-Directory and DVD folders? If possible, put them on separate drives...

Regards,
George

cgould · Post by **cgould** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:05 pm

GeorgeW wrote:
cgould wrote:Try rendering the MPEG file from MSpro's timeline instead, and just using the mpg in DVDWS2 (make sure "do not encode compliant files" is checked). if you need separate titles, then make sep. MPGs from the timeline (I use separate timelines in msp8 for that.)
Make sure you have all the patches for both programs installed.
It's the "opposite" in DVDWS2 -- you have to tell it to convert by using the "Convert to Disc Template" option in the EDIT step. To avoid re-encoding, you leave that box unchecked (both Video and Audio). If that box is ghosted, then DVDWS does not think you have compliant files...

Regards,
George

Thanks, yes that's what I meant

If that still doesn't work, other option is to do the above, but DO check the "convert to template", for AUDIO ONLY. This will have dvdws2 re-encode the audio, and it can sometimes resync the audio. (This was mostly for trimmed or DVD-VR MPG files getting a little out, but might help here...)

golem95 · Post by **golem95** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:02 pm

GeorgeW wrote: It's the "opposite" in DVDWS2 -- you have to tell it to convert by using the "Convert to Disc Template" option in the EDIT step. To avoid re-encoding, you leave that box unchecked (both Video and Audio). If that box is ghosted, then DVDWS does not think you have compliant files...

Question: If I am creating the MPEG then from the MSP8 (SP1) timeline, the video and audio will be in the same file, no? And then DVDWS will multiplex the file and separate the two, correct? Or should I be creating separate video and audio streams directly from the MSP8 timeline?

GeorgeW wrote: One thing to check - in the BURN step of DVDWS -- where are your Work-Directory and DVD folders? If possible, put them on separate drives...

Thanks George, I will check that out. I believe they are both set to my D drive.

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:32 pm

golem95 wrote:Question: If I am creating the MPEG then from the MSP8 (SP1) timeline, the video and audio will be in the same file, no? And then DVDWS will multiplex the file and separate the two, correct? Or should I be creating separate video and audio streams directly from the MSP8 timeline?

You can do it either way. DWS can build the DVD from program streams or elementary streams.

golem95 wrote:
GeorgeW wrote: One thing to check - in the BURN step of DVDWS -- where are your Work-Directory and DVD folders? If possible, put them on separate drives...
Thanks George, I will check that out. I believe they are both set to my D drive.

My mistake -- I don't think you can specify separate drives/folders for those two (I was actually thinking of another Authoring program)

Sorry,
George

golem95 · Post by **golem95** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:41 pm

GeorgeW wrote:[
You can do it either way. DWS can build the DVD from program streams or elementary streams.

Is there a preferred method? Or is it six of one, half-dozen of the other?

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:57 pm

For DWS, I don't know if it matters (another program I use always wants to separate to elementary streams).

I would at least generate a single file first -- that way you can use something like PowerDVD to play the mpeg and check the sync (it's a little harder with elementary streams). You can always generate an audio stream separately, and replace the audio in DWS (but I don't think you can output an AC3 elementary audio stream from MSP -- so output a WAV stream and let DWS convert to AC3).

Since you are generating a single mpeg from the MSP timeline, try putting "cuts" along the timeline every 20-minutes or so -- that might help maintain the sync for the duration.

Regards,
George

golem95 · Post by **golem95** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:19 pm

Thanks for your help George. I generated the MPG right from the MSP timeline and it is perfectly in sync throughout. Why the AVI is in sync but gets OOS during the DVD creation is one of those great mysteries, I suppose.

I actually like the idea of creating the MPG directly, since then I have more control over the quality and bitrate settings for the main movie vs. the special features.

Thanks again!

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:22 pm

Glad that worked

Out of curioisty, did you do it with or without the artificial "cuts" along the timeline every 20-minutes or so? And did you use one program stream, or did you go with elementary streams? (just want to see what works vs. what does not for future reference).

Regards,
George

golem95 · Post by **golem95** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:20 pm

Heh... I wasn't sure what you meant by "cuts" so I didn't do anything like that LOL! I rendered using the default NTSC DVD 4:3 template and then edited the options to alter the bitrate for my particular content length and set the audio to AC3. I then rendered a single MPEG with the combined audio/video. This was then multiplexed in DVDWS2.