Importing DVD Files and project settings

Guido · Post by **Guido** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:41 am

In the past, I always captured movies directly into MF4 and set the bitrate based on the length. But I recently I bought a Samsung DVD Recorder/VCR and when capturing on the DVD recorder, I set the quality level.

I captured a 2 hour show at the 2 hour recording level and it produced a 4.2GB file and I wanted to do a little trimming in MF4. But when I imported the DVD files, MF4 was reporting it as 6.6GB. After going through the forums for hours, I finally figured out the project settings were throwing it off because it was set to the 60 minute setting.

So after going through the forums more, I still haven't seen an answer to this....if the files are at the rate I want to burn at, why do I have to set anything in the project settings when importing? I want MF4 to import it exactly as it was recorded and not have to go in and mess with bitrates and quality settings.

I went ahead and set the capture to 90 minutes (even though the movie is 120) and it then shows the project size as 3.8 GB. But then when I burn the movie, the files are about 2.5 GB. This is with the do not convert option checked. This is becoming so frustrating. I was able to bring it into DVD shrink, and trim the beginning and end, and it burned it back at 4.2 GB. But I have some movies I want to do menus for and this importing is stopping it at the moment.

DVDDoug · Post by **DVDDoug** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:48 pm

Using a stand alone DVD recorder seems like a good idea, but in practice it turns-out to be a bad choice if you want to edit or re-author the DVDs.

Well... analog capture is never easy...

I captured a 2 hour show at the 2 hour recording level and it produced a 4.2GB file and I wanted to do a little trimming in MF4. But when I imported the DVD files, MF4 was reporting it as 6.6GB.

When you import from a DVD, the file is the same size.

Since we know it's not really 6.6GB, the file may be corrupted (a common problem with MPEGs). I've had MPEGs become corrupted simply by editing them! (Corrupt MPEGs can create a variety of "interesting" symptoms.)

Or, if its telling you that your are going to need 6.6G when you burn it, maybe the audio is being converted. If you have an 'SE' version of MF4, this could be the case because the SE versions usually don't have AC3 audio. If your recorder is burning AC3 audio, and Movie Factory is converting it to it LPCM, that would account for the difference.

I went ahead and set the capture to 90 minutes (even though the movie is 120) and it then shows the project size as 3.8 GB. But then when I burn the movie, the files are about 2.5 GB.

I think the project size estimate is based on the project settings. But when you check Do Not Convert, the project settings are ignored.

Sometimes Movie Factory doesn't think your files are compliant, and it will re-code them anyway.

And, it appears that lots of users are having trouble importing DVDs. So, there are some DVDs, or DVDs from some recorders, that Movie Factory just "doesn't like".

You can try a program called VOB 2 MPG (FREE!!!). It will import a DVD as an MPEG file without any conversion. I've only tried it on one DVD, and did work for that one. Every other "DVD to MPEG" program that I've tried (except for the Ulead programs) has re-coded the MPEG.

Guido · Post by **Guido** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:43 am

Thanks for the reply. I had originally used a Turtle Beach analog converter which worked okay until I had to capture anything over 2 hours from a VHS tape. The quality was horrible. And this was optimizing the bitrate. With this new DVD/VHS recorder, I can easily do 4 hours of VHS recording with good quality. Big improvement over the Turtle Beach converter.

The size of the project when importing appears to directly related to the project settings. Even with the Do Not Convert checked. I did another import of a DVD that was just over 3 hours and had a size of 4.32GB. When I imported, the project settings were set to HQ and the project size was estimated at like 10GB.

I don't think any of these files are corrupt or non-compliant. After I import the DVD files, Ulead converts them to MPEGs and stores them in the convert directory. These files are about 4.3GB also but same issue when importing and project size.

I've started looking around at other programs because I still don't see why I need to mess with project settings when importing. When burning, I can understand the need but not if I know the files importing are the right size.

maddrummer3301 · Post by **maddrummer3301** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:07 am

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:25 am

Guido wrote:...
I don't think any of these files are corrupt or non-compliant. After I import the DVD files, Ulead converts them to MPEGs and stores them in the convert directory. These files are about 4.3GB also but same issue when importing and project size.

I've started looking around at other programs because I still don't see why I need to mess with project settings when importing. When burning, I can understand the need but not if I know the files importing are the right size.

Just in case you haven't noticed yet, DVD files are mpeg2 files, packaged into VOB extension files which are accessed by yor DVD player according to instructions it finds in the IFO and BUP files. So, VS is not converting them to mpeg, just taking the DVD jargon out. More often than not, you can simply rename a VOB file with an mpg extension and use it straight out.

Guido · Post by **Guido** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:11 am

maddrummer3301...

I have tried what you said in the above post examples in both MF4 and then in MF5 trial. I import the DVD files which creates a single MPEG. I then exit and import that file, instead of the DVD files, and the file estimation is still based on the project settings and not based on the actual file. I can change the project settings and each time when I import the file estimation is different.

If you set your project settings to HQ, and import around a 1+ hour file, does it ignore the project settings and use the file size from the actual file?

maddrummer3301 · Post by **maddrummer3301** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:23 am

Guido · Post by **Guido** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:27 am

Here's the properties of one file:

File:
File Format: MPEG-2
File Size: 4,408,248 KB
Duration: 7213.313 Seconds

Video:
Video Type: MPEG-2, Upper Field First
Total Frames: 216,183
Attributes: 24 bits, 720x480, 4:3
Frame Rate: 29.970 Frames/Sec
Date Rate: Variable bit rate (Max. 10000 kbps)

Audio:
Dolby Digital Audio
Total Samples: 346,239,039
Attributes: 48000 Hz
Bit rate: 256 kbps

With this same file, I was able to bring the DVD files into DVD shrink, cut a little off the beginning and end, and then burned it at almost the same size as recorded. But I have some VHS tapes that are only like 30 minutes each that I want to combine on one CD with menus.

I also imported a file I had captured with MF4 last year and the properies were a little different and it did fit fine. File format was listed as NTSC DVD instead of MPEG-2 and audio was LPCM Audio.

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:36 am

Now, this is not to DVD standard

Date Rate: Variable bit rate (Max. 10000 kbps)

Most DVD players will choke on anything over 9000 kbps and that is with the audio combined. To be DVD compliant, AFAIK, about 8000 kbps are the max. !0000 kbps is too high and not DVD compliant, hence the program will convert down to achieve compliance.

Guido · Post by **Guido** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:09 am

I decided to try the VOB 2 MPG as suggested above and afer I use this, the MPEG is now 6500 bit rate but still saying over 6GB. The only difference now that I can find between files that fit and don't fit is the the files that fit say they are NTSC DVD in the Ulead media clip properties and the ones that don't fit say MPEG-2.

Maybe I need to search for the DVD recorder on the net and see if others are having similar issues with importing into other programs. I would think these files are considered DVD compliant if I can open the DVD files in DVD shrink, burn back to a DVD-R, and view the movie just fine on my PC and TV DVD player but this stuff has always been a pain.

maddrummer3301 · Post by **maddrummer3301** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:42 am

Guido · Post by **Guido** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:49 am

Thanks for your help with this. I originally bought the Samsung because I got a great deal on Black Friday and it had good reviews on Amazon. Also Consumer Reports had ranked a very similar model that did HD second in the DVD/VCR Recorder category.

I checked out the Nero software which runs about $80 and I think I'm going to put the extra money into a Panasonic DMR-ES35VS, which Consumer Reports ranked first, and see what happens. If works as it should, I'll keep it and return the Samsung. If it doesn't, then I can simply return it.

maddrummer3301 · Post by **maddrummer3301** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:31 am

Guido · Post by **Guido** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:52 pm

An update just in case anyone ever comes across the same problem.

I bought a Panasonic DVD/VCR recorder and was able to import the file without the same size issues I did with a Samsung. But, the Panasonic had issues with playing the first VCR tape correctly and the first 10 seconds has static until the auto adjust finally completed. This of course got recorded on the DVD. On the Samsung and other VCR's I didn't have this problem with the same tape. Also a very annoying "feature" is you must watch what is being recorded (at least from VCR to DVD) and can't press the TV/VCR button like you can the Samsung.

So, I decided to check out Nero and downloaded the trial. I imported the same files recorded by the Samsung and had issues with MF4/5 into Nero Vision and it shows the files size exactly the same as the source files size. I thought the problem was solved but Nero Vision stinks. It has no auto chapter option for the menus and the backgrounds are lame. Even with all the problems I've had with MF4/5, I have to say it's the best as far as ease of use, options, and menu background selections. MySonic gives you 3 backgrounds and charges $20 for an additional 5.

I then tried Nero Recode and I can use the compile option and import into MF4 successfully but none of the other recode options work. I then tried compile and import into MF5 and the size is wrong again.

So at this point not sure what I'll try next. I think I'll start a thread with Samsung in it to see if I can find someone else in the world importing with a Samsung. I may just get a Panasonic DVD recorder only and put the VCR back in the entertainment system. That way I shouldn't have the static issue in the beginning and should be able to press TV/VCR to watch something else while recording.

Frustrating...