Burn After TMPGEnc encoding avi files

raygo · Post by **raygo** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:21 am

hi,
I saved my project as a video file AVI, then used TMPGEnc to encode to mpeg.

my question is, do you still follow the VS Recommended procedure for burning to dvd as far as project settings or has this changed since using a 3rd party avi to mpeg encoder.. I keep getting "this will take some time" with the TMP mpeg even though I am trying to keep project properties the same as recommended.

[one thing i did notice and don't know if it pertains to anything but,
the same project was 3 gigabytes larger when I used TMP to convert avi to mpeg.
I used VS 9 to convert and the mpeg file is 3 gigabytes smaller.

bottom line aside from my question is I am trying to see which method gives me the best final burn quality...

Post by **Ken Berry** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:50 am

It will obviously depend on the mpeg properties. What are they.

As far as I am aware, with VS10, you get the message 'This will take some time' whether or not it is going to re-render the file.

And how big exactly is the larger file rendered by TMPGEnc? Will it fit on a single layer DVD or do you intend to burn to a dual layer disc?

It would also be useful to know what the format was of the video you used in the project. Can we also assume that by 'AVI' you are talking about uncompressed AVI, or is it DV/AVI or one of the mpeg-4 formats like DivX or XVid which also use AVI as their carrier format?

raygo · Post by **raygo** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:02 am

my mistake..
Actually, I just checked again and the VS mpeg is 1.58 gigabyte.
the TMPG [3rd party encoded mpeg] is 2.00 gigabytes.
Little difference..

I used un-copressed avi when I captured..

so again,
do I need to follow the burn phase rules or can I just bring in the 3rd party mpeg as new project and burn without rendering.
I'm not using any menu's or chapters on this video..

Post by **Ken Berry** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:26 am

And again I have to say, it depends on the mpeg properties. What are they?

Otherwise, yes, if they are DVD compliant, you just bring the mpeg rendered in TMPGEnc to the VS burning module, create your menu if you want one, and burn.

raygo · Post by **raygo** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:51 am

yes Ken,
they are compliant..

VS encoded

MPEG files
24 Bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First
(DVD-NTSC), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
Audio data rate: 256 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)

3rd party encoded

MPEG files
24 Bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First
(DVD-NTSC), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
Audio data rate: 256 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)

Post by **Ken Berry** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 2:29 am

Yes, they look fine. So go ahead, and just ignore 'this will take some time' message.

doshea · Post by **doshea** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 2:35 am

Ken,

I've reviewed some of your older posts on this. I'm trying to do as Raygo is as well, but I have a couple more questions.

First, my clips were rendered at seperate streams using TMPGEnc (actually using DVD Source Creator, which is the same program essentially, but with fewer choices than TMPGEnc...) One of the fewer choices is that SourceCreator won't allow you to encode as a system stream (combined video/audio...).

Anyway, the video stream is 720x480, MPEG2, VBR, 8000 Kbit/s Average (unknown max, but I assume a legal value since TMPGEnc generates only legal encodings). Top Field First. (THis is reflected in the VS8 clip properties).

The project properties were set to: Top Field, VBR, Data rate 8080 Kbits, Advanced sub-menu gives 8000 Kbits/second. THe project audio is set to the PCM 48KHz, stereo. (That is the format of the audio .wav file), again clip properties show that.

Is the project setting for Compression Tab supposed to have the data rate set to 8000, which gives a lower 7xxx value on the Advanced tab (e.g. match Datarate), or am I correct to use 8080 Datarate, which gives a 8000 Kbits/second average bit value in the advanced tab. (TMPGEnc gave 8000 Kbits/s as the average value).

Seems like VS8 is re-rendering this clip based on the time it is taking.

Is there a way to tell if VS8 is rerending? As you noted, VS8 (or VSx) seems to always say, "this will take a while", so you can't really tell if it is re-rendering or not. (Other than to play the clip.) Is there a way to tell?

raygo · Post by **raygo** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:40 am

Ken,
just to let you know,
there is a difference when using TMGEnc To encode avi to mpeg.
I then bring that new mpeg file back to VS to burn.

the difference is not night/day but when showing both burns to friends/family,
they all agree that one looks a bit sharper and richer color than the other.
And that is the one encoded thru TMP.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:01 am

Raygo: I am not surprised since TMPGEnc is more of a specialised program. I suspect you would find the same thing as Womble, which is a specialised mpeg editor.

Doshea: I am not really sure where your two sets of properties are coming from. If DVD Source Creator is producing an mpeg-2 file which is already DVD-compliant, the audio stream apart (though itself apparently compliant), then where do 'project properties' enter the picture? Is it that you are actually having to reintegrate the audio into a single video file before going to the burning module? Or are they the project properties used in DVD Source Creator? (I am assuming the latter since I cannot find 'Advanced' buttons in the template settings for VS.)

In any case, when I open VS, I would be making sure that 'Show message when first video clip is inserted into timeline' is checked in File > Preferences. Then when you insert your mpeg-2 file from DVD Source Creator, you will be asked if you want the project properties to match those of the clip. If you accept this, then I would have thought that that resolved your problem.

Then, in the burning module, check to make sure that 'Do not convert compliant mpeg files' is checked. If it is, then when you insert your new mpeg-2, no changes will be made to the properties through a further encoding in the burning module.

There is no real way of telling how long a burn will take as far as I am aware. This will vary according to how long the video actually is, and whether you have made a complex or simple menu, with or without audio or motion buttons, or indeed whether you have a menu at all. The menu has to be converted/encoded to mpeg-2 so it can be burned to disc, and again this alone can be a lengthy process if you have a complex menu. In practice, I find it will usually take 15 or 20 minutes, though sometimes more.

Multiplexing of the video and audio can also take some time -- though in practice I find it rarely takes more than a half hour for a 4.3 GB project. The actual burning time for the same size project on a single layer disc at 4x (my preferred maximum burning speed) is just on 15 minutes on any of my burners (I have 5).

So overall, on a very rough estimate, I would say that an entire burn could take anywhere from around an hour to 90 minutes for a full disc project. Mine are usually at the lower end of that.