UVS10+ jumpy video in Create Disk

garywood84 · Post by **garywood84** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:33 pm

vidoman,

Thanks for clarifying this. However, even if I set the Create Disk properties to exactly match the input video -- be that the original or the rendered edit -- the output is still jumpy.

Gary

garywood84 · Post by **garywood84** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:11 pm

Anyone got any more ideas on this? I now have several videos to process after Christmas and, if I can't find a solution soon, I'll have to revert to using VS9.

Thanks in advance,

Gary

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:18 pm

garywood84 wrote:I think that whatever the bug in this version is, it's in the Create DVD module. Outputting video any other way doesn't create any problems. The Create DVD module seems to start off wrong from the very beginning -- it doesn't detect the correct properties of the video clip and set itself up accordingly. My video has a bit rate of 6400 kbps Constant, but Create DVD defaults to 700 kbps variable. So, even though I'm ticking the box that says "Do not convert compliant MPEG files", I'm not sure what that's doing, because it doesn't seem to know the true properties of the MPEG files.

One of Video Studio's "less charming" features is to default to incorrect property values. This is one of the reasons the Recommended Procedure was written - to steer new users away from relying on VS as a safety net. Instead, this procedure details the exact steps that you should use to manually set the properties in every step of the editing process. Please read it (link below)

The BURN module is especially troublesome because (1) If your Edit timeline is not empty, VS will re-render your video whether it needs it or not and (2) Ulead developers have hidden the property management window behind a tiny gear-shaped icon, which is located second to the right on the lower left hand corner of the first burn window. After opening this window, select Change Mpeg Settings, then set them up to match your video file properties - in your case, pay particular attention to the Field Order property.

Burn to ISO files instead of a DVD, change the file suffix from .iso to .mpg and play it back in your PC to make sure there is no jitter. Pull it into video studio and recheck the properties. If OK, then burn the DVD.

maddrummer3301 · Post by **maddrummer3301** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:53 pm

garywood84 · Post by **garywood84** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:35 pm

John,

Thanks for your reply.

When I'd previously tried rendering the edits to a file and then using that within Create Disk, I did so straight after rendering the video, so the original was still in the timeline.

Following your comments, I rendered a video, then created a new, blank project with nothing in the timeline. Clicking Create Disc within that project and then inserting the rendered video, the result was not jumpy but played correctly.

Interestingly, though, if I save my VS project as a VSP file, then create a new project, click Create Disc and import the VSP rather than the rendered edit, then the jumpiness returns.

So, it seems that the problem has something to do with VS10 being able to create a disc from a VSP file. This definitely seems to be an issue in VS10, because it happens on all of my computers, but I can't understand why no other users have reported similar difficulties.

Whilst I can live with it for now, since with your help I've found a work-around, it definitely needs fixing. What's the procedure for reporting it to Ulead, or do they monitor these forums?

The problem it presents is that rendering before going in to create disc makes it difficult to know what bitrates to use, if the original video needs to be shrunk down to fit on the disc, since the indicator of size relative to disc space, given at the bottom of the create disc window, is not available elsewhere in VS. This could therefore result in double rendering - once to create a video file to be used by Create Disc, and then a second time within Create Disc to make the file size suitable.

Hopefully Ulead will fix this soon, but, in the meantime, thank you for helping me to find a work-around, and please let me know if you have any other suggestions.

Cheers,

Gary

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:40 pm

Gary,
I am glad that you finally had success!

BTW, the other NO-NO that is stated in the Recommended Procedure is to never use Add Project in the burn module because that will also re-render your files whether they need it or not.

I have been trying to get Ulead to fix these problems for four years - see http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic. ... 9&start=17

Edit: MD, Sorry, my memory failed about the iso file

- actually it is the .VOB file in the Video_TS folder that can be changed to .mpg for the playback test.

garywood84 · Post by **garywood84** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:18 pm

John,

Thanks for this. I wouldn't say I'd had success - because the program isn't working as well as it should do, nor as well as VS9 used to work for me. What I've done is simply find a work-around that lets me avoid bugs in VS10 for the time being.

I've looked at your post in the wishlist and agree with most of your suggestions. However, rather than disabling the option to create DVDs from projects, how about just making it work correctly? Most users will actually want to end up with a DVD rather than rendering a video file to their hard drive. And, if it's taken in steps (i.e. VS renders each video clip, then worries about making the DVD from those, as separate stages of one process initiated by clicking "Start" on the Create Disc Wizard), then there really is no reason why it couldn't work.

Oddly, I never had any problems at all with VS8 or VS9, and that's one of the reasons I'm a VS user - all the other programs I tried gave errors or didn't work the way they ought to have done. Since I don't think I'm actually using any of the new features in VS10, I may go back to VS9 until the problems identified in this thread are resolved - simply because it's quicker to create a DVD from a project than have to render lots of files first.

Thanks again for your help, though - I'm pleased to have at least been able to identify the cause of my problems and that I now have proof of what I'd suspected all along - it wasn't my fault!!!

Cheers,

Gary

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:15 pm

Gary -- I'd just like to emphasise one point to correct a possible misapprehension on your part. You are not alone in noticing this behaviour with relation to project files. And far from no other user reporting it, it is IMHO the single most common problem reported on this Board (and I have been here for 5 years now!!

)

It has indeed been a problem since I started using Video Studio with version 7. And it was perhaps the main reason which drove John Hunter to develop the Recommended Procedures IIRC for VS8 and subsequent versions.

Yes, the Recommended Procedure is in a sense a work-around, but at least it usually guarantees a positive outcome to a project rather than the problems which arise regularly when users (like yourself) use the alternative, or in your view, more logical work flow.

That is in no way meant as a criticism of you or those who adopt such a work flow. Because you are right: it SHOULD work that way. And in fact, as you found with VS8 and 9, it DOES work for some people all the time. For others (as you are now finding with VS10), it works most of the time but then a problem arises. And for others -- the bulk? -- it simply doesn't work at all. And we have never been able to work out why, much less convince Ulead over the years that it is a real problem, as John Hunter has already suggested.

Again, that is why the Recommended Procedure was developed: to help those in the second and third categories. We are by no means saying that it is the only way to do things. If you can get the logical way to work, well good for you! But if you run into problems, then at least you know there is an alternative way which usually works!

And just to correct another misapprehension: following the Recommended Procedure in fact does not add any significant time to the overall process. The fact remains that at some stage your edited project has to be converted to DVD-compatible mpeg-2. Under the recommended procedure, this is done as a separate step after editing and before opening the burning module. It will take substantial time to do, though the actual time will depend on the complexity of the editing, the possible use of Smart Render, and your computer architecture. (My computer -- see my System button below -- for example takes usually 1.1 to 1.25 times real time for this conversion).

But in the logical work flow you prefer, this conversion still has to take place and will take exactly the same time -- if, that is, it can be successfully carried out at all as part of the burn process.

The only real time difference is the few seconds extra it takes to click on Share > Create Video File > DVD and give the new file a name instead of just going straight to Share > Create Disc. And, (gently mocking this time!

) this is not to mention all the time lost by people who follow the logical route and come up against problems which the recommended procedure seeks to avoid!!

maddrummer3301 · Post by **maddrummer3301** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:23 pm

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:44 am

Ken Berry wrote:Yes, the Recommended Procedure is in a sense a work-around, but at least it usually guarantees a positive outcome to a project rather than the problems which arise regularly when users (like yourself) use the alternative, or in your view, more logical work flow.

That is in no way meant as a criticism of you or those who adopt such a work flow. Because you are right: it SHOULD work that way. And in fact, as you found with VS8 and 9, it DOES work for some people all the time. For others (as you are now finding with VS10), it works most of the time but then a problem arises. And for others -- the bulk? -- it simply doesn't work at all. And we have never been able to work out why, much less convince Ulead over the years that it is a real problem, as John Hunter has already suggested.

Again, that is why the Recommended Procedure was developed: to help those in the second and third categories. We are by no means saying that it is the only way to do things. If you can get the logical way to work, well good for you! But if you run into problems, then at least you know there is an alternative way which usually works!

Agreed that the procedure helps "minimize" issues, because it isolates the different steps needed to prepare the DVD. I would not go as far as to imply that logical method "using a project in the create disc module" doesn't work at all for "the bulk" -- because I don't believe we see "the bulk" of ALL VideoStudio users on this forum. In other words, who comes to these forums -- those who seek help with an issue. Now, if you said it helps "the bulk" of the users seeking help on this forum, then that might be a valid assumption. But because the "logical method" works for ALOT MORE folks than you might think (i.e. the users who will never need to come to these forums because it works fine for them), it shouldn't be discounted as a valid working procedure...

Regards,
George

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:33 am

I stand contrite and corrected!!

Thank goodness I put a question mark after 'bulk'...

Happy New Year to everyone!!!

garywood84 · Post by **garywood84** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:11 am

Thank you all for the further replies.

Ken - I realise that the processing time in creating a disc is not increased, but since I used to create projects and then leave the DVD creation processing over night or when I'm away from my computer, the time it takes to create the DVD is significantly longer - because now I have to do more work after the lengthy processing to create the disc itself.

maddrummer3301 - I am editing MPEGs because that is the only format my capture card can create. However, they are at a constant bitrate so as far as I'm aware, VS should be able to detect their properties correctly.

To re-emphasise a point I made earlier: my objection is not really to the fact that I have to render before creating a DVD but rather to the fact that I now have to do it with UVS10, when I didn't with VS9 or 8 before it. Whilst I understand that many people have experienced similar problems with those versions too, and that I must have been lucky until now, I still find it unbelieveable that VS continues to win awards given the headaches it's causing people and - worse - that Ulead appears to be ignoring the issues which have clearly been raised.

Gary

Crex · Post by **Crex** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:27 am

Hi Gary,

i had the same problem with VS10.
Try to turn off the Anti-flicker filter.
( Create Disk - Preferences - General - uncheck "Anti-flicker filter" )

Crex

IanL · Post by **IanL** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:07 am

I have just run into the same problem as the original poster.

Thanks to the truly superb contributors to this board, I was able to follow the advice and get a great improvement.

In case this helps others, I found that the Hi-8 analogue footage I started with (10 years old!), although fairly smooth when displayed directly to TV, does produce a slightly jumpy result when digitised. Following all the advice about settings in VS10 did reduce it, but I found the most reduction I could achieve was to convert to DV using a Canopus ADVC50 which I happened to have, and recording the DV stream on my Yamada DVD Recorder. I can then import the resulting DVD from disk into VS10, and, with all the settings the same as the original DVD footage, and carefully following the workstream instructions, I'm delighted to say that editing produces no further degradation.

Btw, I tried directly capturing in both .avi and .mpg in VS10; the .mpg was a bit better than the .avi, but neither could match the Yamada. In both cases with VS10, the A to D converter was a Canopus ADVC1394. So I was using the same A to D technology. I also tried VS9 - no difference in capture jumpiness to VS10.

In case anyone wonders, the reason I use the Canopus unit, rather than feeding the analogue straight into the Yamada, is that the Yamada does not have S Video input, but the Canopus does. I did try inputting CV directly into the Yamada, but it did not improve the jumpiness, and the picture quality loss was evident.

Anyway, a big thanks to all who helped, and a Happy New Year

rfgarrett · Post by **rfgarrett** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:45 pm

Dear All:

I have been having the same problem as Gary (& others), so am very pleased to have found this thread: it even prompted me to register for the forum! I have also been setting the correct properties, editing etc then
going directly to the create disc utility in "share". I also had no problems with VS9 (SE in my case) but have very jerky results with V10+ whenever there is a lot of motion in a scene, eg a fast pan. I don't think the problem is with MPEG editing as I am using DV-AVI captured from a digital camera. What I do see is that, despite having video settings correct when editing, as soon as I go to share-->create disc the preferences revert to NTSC. (I am in Australia = PAL). When I change back to PAL I get a warning dialogue that VS is changing my video attributes etc. The jerky video, especially of fast moving scenes, is exactly what I see described as problems in PAL <--> NTSC conversions. This seems to me to back up the conclusion that the main problem is VS not transferring settings to the create disk application.

Thanks to earlier posts in this thread I have now first created mpeg video files, then inserted them into create disc and all is well. However, like Gary, I am not completely happy. Aside from a major component of the software not working, the workaround takes extra time: I also was in the habit of setting everything up, hitting the burn button, and going to bed (or whatever). It is pretty poor that what is clearly a well recognised shortcoming is completely undocumented other than on this forum, eg it surely should be added to the "Knowledge base" on the VS web pages.

Lastly I want to add my thanks to all who have responded to Gary's original post, and to Gary for starting this. I'm sure it has helped a lot of people.

Happy New Year
Richard