HD Scene recognition using timecode?

Delboy · Post by **Delboy** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:04 am

I am a casual user of VS10+ having previously used sevral earleir versions.

Recently I discovered the VS9 auto scene detection feature based on the DV timecode to be most useful. Having recently upgraded my camera to a Sony HC3 I cannot seem to get VS10+ to recognise the time code when capturing in HD format?

Am I missing something or does VS or the HD format have a limitaiton comapred to SD DV?

maddrummer3301 · Post by **maddrummer3301** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:05 am

Delboy · Post by **Delboy** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:27 am

maddrummer3301 wrote:
Am I missing something or does VS or the HD format have a limitiiton compared to SD DV?
BOTH

Thanks - I think. At least your detailed response indicates that I need to go and do more research to find 'what I am missing' and what the format limitations are

Great Help...........

maddrummer3301 · Post by **maddrummer3301** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:54 pm

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:58 pm

I can only add that I recommend against scene splitting during capture, especially those that physically split into many individual files. Instead, do the scene split in the Video Studio Edit timeline. These splits are virtual, frame-accurate, and do not alter the GOP structure of the capture file. You can freely shorten or edit these splits individually. Only the final output file physically instantiates your cuts.

See HD Tutorial http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=13872

Dereck · Post by **Dereck** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:35 pm

maddrummer3301 wrote: When playing back the videos recorded in HD-Mpeg2 and down converted to SD mode when viewed on a 60" HDTV they are definitely nice.

The panning and movement in the Downconverted to SD is "Better" than the HD version.,

To clarify a couple of points in your informative response. Are you saying that recording in HD format then downconvert to SD using the internal downcovert option is better than recording in SD mode?

In reagard to the panning issues. I thought this was something I was doing even though i have been using 'movie cameras' for years (alah Standard 8 Cine format!). Again does this suggest that recording in SD mode reduces this problem?

Now all I need do is find out why my latest masterpiece insists on playing back as a black & white image and I will be back to where I was with UV9 and my old camera..........

Dereck · Post by **Dereck** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:40 pm

jchunter wrote:I can only add that I recommend against scene splitting during capture,

I was not actually splitting during the capture, I wanted to use the internal VS9/10 scene detection options based on date/time which creates 'virtual' edit points at the appropriatte places. It is this fucntion that does not appear to be available with an mpeg2 file.

The HD tutorial is really good - thank you...

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:10 pm

Dereck,
When I downconvert HDV to SD for regular DVDs, they have measurably better resolution than DVDs that were created from my old Panasonic GS400 SD camcorder. This may be due to the higher video bitrate that I use for downconverted HDV (9.8Mbps vs. 8Mbps) that is able to express some of the extra detail that is captured in the HDV.

Dereck · Post by **Dereck** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:58 am

jchunter wrote:Dereck,
may be due to the higher video bitrate that I use for downconverted HDV (9.8Mbps vs. 8Mbps) that is able to express some of the extra detail that is captured in the HDV.

John,

To clarify, you record in HDV format then use the cameras 'down convert' to SD DV option?

I have a video of a friends 'V8 Supercar race day' taken on the shiny new HC3, which is really choppy and no I did not use a tripod as suggested earlier in this thread! Never needed one with my old SD cam. I have followed the HD editing guide and significanly improved the end result although it is still disappoiniting.

Just trying to develop a baseline for the future as to whether I should record in HD and down convert using the cameras options or start with SD anyway?

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:50 am

I do not have HD and do not profess to know anything about HD.
Regarding the 'V8 Supercar race day' which obviously has a lot of fast movement, you may be interested in an article by Terry Stetler
MSP/VS/MF: Encode MPEG's from clips with fast motion

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:54 pm

Dereck wrote:To clarify, you record in HDV format then use the cameras 'down convert' to SD DV option?

No, absolutely not. I capture HDV, edit that format directly and then create video files in various formats for different purposes. Simple, straightforward, fast. Different video file formats include Mpeg2 HDV (fastest to render but bulky), Mpeg2 SD (for standard DVDs), Divx or Xvid HD (slow to transcode but most compact, able to fit 1 - 2 hours of HD in 4GB).

If you use the camcorder's downconvert feature you can't do anything but put it on a standard DVD. You can't even view high definition on your PC.

Moreover, you will eventually have to capture the HDV AGAIN and edit it AGAIN, later.

BTW, most playback choppyness is due to the fact that a lot of playback software has not, yet, caught up with high definition. Try Media Player Classic, as recommended in the HD Tutorial.

Also, shooting HD requires a very steady grip or a fluid head tripod. You can make your audience seasick if the image is too unsteady. I use a Sony VCT-870RM (~$120), which also has a LANC controller that permits a full 25 second zoom. Pan slow, zoom slow.

Dereck · Post by **Dereck** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:54 pm

sjj1805 wrote:I do not have HD and do not profess to know anything about HD.
Regarding the 'V8 Supercar race day' which obviously has a lot of fast movement, you may be interested in an article by Terry Stetler
MSP/VS/MF: Encode MPEG's from clips with fast motion

Steve,

Looked at this and ran some tests but eventually realised that I probably cannot improve the quality as the ORIGINAL on the DV tape has the problem! As mentioend previously in this thread this appears to be a limitation of the current HD 'consumer' technology, what I have on tape is what I have got and I assume no 'low cost' editing tool is going to fix this now.

Dereck · Post by **Dereck** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:04 pm

jchunter wrote:
Dereck wrote:To clarify, you record in HDV format then use the cameras 'down convert' to SD DV option?
No, absolutely not. I capture HDV, edit that format directly and then create video files in various formats for different purposes. .

Undserstood and thanks, in fact what I have been doing is capturing in HD format for future use - ie storage until HD becoems a commodity as well as in SD format which made the scene detection easier.

Going back to the start of this thread I wanted to capture in 'DV' SD format because it enabled VS to identify the start rec/stop record positions and easily insert scene edit points. Obviously continuing to capture two formats from tape is not ideal so I will only capture in HD, use the scene change option in VS to identify the scenes then produce the output in which ever format is suitable as you suggest.

Alludo USER to USER Web Board

HD Scene recognition using timecode?

HD Scene recognition using timecode?

Thanks ??

Scene Editing during capture