VS10 Plus image rotation problem

Peta · Post by **Peta** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:49 am

Hi all

I am making projects with a fair number of high quality photographs and before importing them into VS10+ I am rotating those that need rotating and enhancing (cropping, red eye removal etc). I then save them as jpeg's and launch Ulead, go to 'edit' - import image - and import the images. Trouble is, they come in with the rotation in its original form. The other enhancements have been retained, but it will not recognise a photo has been rotated. This happens when I make the picture adjustments in either Paint Shop Pro 8 or Fireworks.

I wonder if anyone else has come across this problem and maybe therefore a solution?

Thanks in advance.

Peta

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:54 am

I always edit my images with PhotoImpact and, prior to that, rotate the ones needing it in PhotoExplorer 8.6 which comes with PI. PhotoExplorer is the only program I know, which rotates a jpeg image and does not recompress this when saving as jpeg again. The file sizes before and after rotation are identical.

Never encountered any of your problems. I also save my images in bmp format after editing, because they come out better quality than jpeg.

Peta · Post by **Peta** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:05 am

Thank you Heinz. I do not have Photo Impact and didn't have this problem with VS 8 and 9. My Fireworks and PSP have always worked just fine. I'll try .bmp instead of jpeg and see if that makes a difference.

It does seem to be peculiar to VS10+ as it's a new problem for me.

cheers

Peta

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:17 am

I wouldn't be prepared to say it's not. I have never used it yet, I use MSP 7.3 and MSP 8.

It's strange though that everything else seems to stick, except the rotation. VS surely doesn't reverse a rotation because it has no way of knowing that the image was rotated.

I would rather suspect your workflow but don't know any of the programs you use. It's a strange one for sure.

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:12 am

Hi Peta

Are you using a photo viewer or a photo editor?

If you have used a photo viewer to rotate your images without re-saving or re-compressing, then original file on the hard drive will be unchanged., only the photo viewer will show the rotation.

Any other program will view the file from the hard drive in its original state.

Use windows explorer to view the files as Thumbnail. This should show the correct orientation of the file.

Trevor

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:43 am

Hi

Update

I have just taken two photos in ¡¥portrait¡¦ with my camera.
Saved to my hard drive.
Viewed on Photo Explorer 8 as the correct way round.

Inserted to VS 10 library, thumbnails show ok.(portrait)
Preview screen shows WRONG way round (landscape)

Images inserted to timeline show as landscape (wrong way round.)

I have tried with VS 9 with NO problems with image displays.

Strange, At the moment I think it is related to VS 10.

Strange

Trevor

blplhp · Post by **blplhp** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:27 pm

Hello heinz-oz,

I would normally not ask this question in this particular forum, but since you mentioned it in your response here, I thought I would ask a follow up question to keep it in the same thread.

You stated,

I also save my images in bmp format after editing, because they come out better quality than jpeg.

If I take an 8 megapixel jpeg image I have on my computer's hard drive (which has NOT been post processed) and save it as a .bmp file, and then print both the jpeg image and the bmp image as 5x7's on the same 8-1/2" x 11" photo paper, will there be a quality difference between the two images? Or is the image quality difference seen only on-screen or in video?

woodchuck · Post by **woodchuck** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:18 pm

Peta,

I use Paint Shop Pro X for cropping, rotating etc. before using in VS10+. I have not experienced the problem you describe.

Woodchuck

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:12 pm

Hi Peta

A little more:-

Image orientation.

Problem:- when viewing ¡¥portrait¡¦ type images in VS 10 the images (sometimes) display the wrong way round.( that is in landscape)

Done a few tests:-

The cause seems to be associated with the auto rotate function used with many cameras.
This appears to fool the viewer/software into seeing the wrong orientation. I then rotate the image thinking I am doing right, this caused the images and thumbnails inserted to the VS library to show incorrectly.

By disabling the cameras auto rotate function, will requires the portrait images to be turned manually. This can be achieved using any image editor.
Inserting images to VS now look ok.

Using an image editor:-

When using the cameras auto rotate viewing in Ulead Photo Explorer 8 is still incorrect.
Which seems strange as the view should be correct.
This may well be the problem. Which now tempts you to rotate the images, to view as ok in the image editor, until that is you insert them to VS 10.

The problem seems to originate from the auto rotate within my camera.
But that does not excuse the image editor seeing the photo wrong.?????????

So

What camera do you have?
Does the camera have an ¡¥auto rotate¡¦ function.

This tags the files as being rotated by 90 degrees, before you upload the images.

Trevor

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:20 pm

blplhp wrote:Hello heinz-oz,

I would normally not ask this question in this particular forum, but since you mentioned it in your response here, I thought I would ask a follow up question to keep it in the same thread.

You stated,
I also save my images in bmp format after editing, because they come out better quality than jpeg.
If I take an 8 megapixel jpeg image I have on my computer's hard drive (which has NOT been post processed) and save it as a .bmp file, and then print both the jpeg image and the bmp image as 5x7's on the same 8-1/2" x 11" photo paper, will there be a quality difference between the two images? Or is the image quality difference seen only on-screen or in video?

There is no need to process an 8 MP image for printing. You will not improve an image by converting or saving it to a different image. When it comes to displaying this image on the TV, that is an entirely different matter. Your TV screen cannot display an 8 MP image and the frame size in pixels cannot be larger than what your DVD standard allows for. That, of course means that the software you use for the creation of the slide show or video, containing stills (essentially the same thing), will not only have to reduce the frame size to make your image fit your TV standard, it will also have to compress this to mpeg2 for DVD. Taking a compressed image format and compress it again results in quality loss. Reducing an image in size (pixel x pixel) requires discarding a number of pixels. With an 8 MP image (what is the size of these images?) the majority of pixels have to be discarded to make it fit the frame. The software will have to guess what the neighboring pixels should look like.

Hence, if you take an 8 MP jpeg image and save it as bmp for insertion into your video project, chances are it will look just as crappy as the jpeg.

I don't have the exact frame size of my 8 MP images (Canon EOS 350D) handy right now, but I know that these are over 3000 pixels wide and close to 2500 pixels tall. Reduce that to 720 x 480 (NTSC) or 720 x 576 (PAL) by taking out that many pixels and you can imagine the task you give to you software and why you get such mediocre image quality. As a matter of fact, at least in my own experience, an image taken with a 1 MP camera and inserted into a video project will look better on the screen than an 8 MP one because not much had to be discarded.

When printing an image, you want mega pixels, when displaying it on a TV, mega pixels are counter productive.

In order to put an image in a slide show I commonly do this:

1. open my image in PI and crop my image to the right aspect ratio
2. take several steps to reduce the pixel count, usually in steps of around 10% max. to get to the frame size of 720 x 576 px if I do not want to pan and zoom on the image. If I want to pan and zoom, I often leave the image untouched and take care of the frame reduction with my moving path.
3. save this image to bmp (uncompressed) and put it in my project library

My images come out crisp and clear. I have also taken images in lower resolution, cropped to 1200 x 900 (4:3 aspect) and inserted as jpeg or bmp but do not find much difference in quality then.

blplhp · Post by **blplhp** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:53 pm

heinz-oz,

Thanks for your reply.

My 8 MP images taken from my Canon A630 digicam is 3264 x 2448.

I have two questions regarding your procedure for reducing your photo size to get a crisp and clear image:

First you say,

open my image in PI and crop my image to the right aspect ratio

. I am fairly new to PI 12, how do I do that? My photo image has an aspect ratio of 4:3. My video file frame size in VS10+ is 720 x 480 (aspect ratio of 3:2). Do I crop my photos to a 3:2 aspect ratio?

Second, you say,

take several steps to reduce the pixel count, usually in steps of around 10% max. to get to the frame size of 720 x 480 px if I do not want to pan and zoom on the image.

Again, new to PI 12, how do I reduce an image's pixel count in 10% steps until I get down to 720 x 480?

All of my video editing up until now, I have been importing my photo images taken from my Canon S45 (which I see you have the same camera), which is 4 MP. I just bought the Canon A630 two weeks ago and will shortly be importing those photo images into future VS10 projects. I will be retiring my S45. So, it sounds like my photo image quality in VS10 will be worse with the 8 MP images than my current 4 MP images if I continue to use the same method I have been using, which has been to just import the unprocessed photo images directly into VS10 as is.

Thanks for your help.