Question on media source aspect ratio...Finally Got it!

ksuwildcat93 · Post by **ksuwildcat93** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:40 pm

I am having some problems with aspect ratios and rendering.

I first noticed the problem when I tried to render a project with titles in a 4:3 ratio and the titles would preview perfectly but render off the screen to the right. I discovered that they don't do this if I render in the default 16:9 ratio. So, I started rendering everything 16:9 and didn't really see any problems with that when I played it on different screens. (I edit on a wide screen laptop but play the videos on large screens with a regular aspect ratio.)

On my next project I noticed that some of my clips were previewing and rendering with black on the side. I went into media source options and found that some of the clips loaded with "Keep Aspect Ratio" selected and some loaded with "Stretch" selected. If I render the ones that keep their aspect ratio in 16:9 I get black on the side just like the are previewing. If I render them 4:3 they render properly, but titles don't work - as in the last project.

I don't want to distort those clips by stretching them so I am unclear how to set up my media source options and render aspect ratios to have undistorted video AND titles that work. Am I missing something here?

Any help would be very much appreciated!!

Jerry Jones · Post by **Jerry Jones** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:40 am

When you insert your titles, are you inserting them into a "title safe area?"

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

ksuwildcat93 · Post by **ksuwildcat93** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:16 am

Yes, the titles are going into the title safe area. They preview properly both in the title dialog box and after inserted on the timeline, but render way off to the side (half off the screen) if I attempt to render 4:3 instead of 16:9.

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:36 am

I suspect you may be using a highly compressed set-up (DivX, XviD, WMV or a low bitrate MPEG-1). If so, then anything can happen. Although MSP and other NLE softwares, will accept highly compressed video, assuming the right codecs are available, editing may produce some undesirable effects.

Can you please tell us what format your video is in and your project settings?

ksuwildcat93 · Post by **ksuwildcat93** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:08 pm

The raw footage is directly off my video camera in high quality AVI format. I use Scenalyzer to capture it - same program I have used for years with no problem. (I formerly used MSP 6 with no problems and just recently upgraded to MSP 8 )

Here are my project settings:

NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 16:9, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First
DV Video Encoder -- type 1
DV Audio -- NTSC, 48.000 kHz, 16 Bit, Stereo

When I go back to MSP 6 and use the exact same raw footage clip I do not encounter any problems. (MSP 6 in the Media Source Options dialog does not have the box for STRETCH, KEEP ASPECT RATIO etc. And when you render there is not an option to render 16:9 vs 4:3.) My clips in MSP 6 automatically fill the entire screen both in preview and when rendered and my titles work fine.

But in MSP 8 my raw footage clip is defaulting to KEEP ASPECT RATIO in the Media Source Options dialog, then it both previews and renders with black on either side unless I change the 16:9 to 4:3 when I render, but when I do that my titles preview properly (centered and within the title safe area) but render way off to the side and half off the screen.

The other thing I can do in MSP 8 to fix it is to choose STRETCH instead of letting it default to KEEP ASPECT RATIO in the Media Source Options - then render 16:9 and everything works fine, but am I distorting my video by doing that? (I can't detect that I am once rendered, but it is obvious that I am in the preview box)

Hope that made sense. Thank you for your help!!

klowther · Post by **klowther** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:15 pm

Do you have 'use non-square pixels' checked in the project settings? If not, you might give that a try.

Hope that helps.

- Ken

ksuwildcat93 · Post by **ksuwildcat93** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:20 am

Yes, the "Perform non-square pixel rendering" check box is checked in the render options dialog. I do no see a check box for this anywhere in the actual project setting area, so I assume that is what you mean.

Jerry Jones · Post by **Jerry Jones** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:39 am

Which program is generating your titles?

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

ksuwildcat93 · Post by **ksuwildcat93** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:26 pm

I have recently been switching from MSP6 to MSP8. The problem with the titles is in MSP 8 - again they work fine if I render 16:9, but if I render 4:3 they are way off to the right side and half off the screen.

In the past I have at times used other titling programs because MSP6 had very rudimentary titles. But, MSP 8 has very nice titles (one of the main reasons for upgrading) if only I could get them to render properly when my video is allowed to "keep aspect ratio" and render 4:3.

Jerry Jones · Post by **Jerry Jones** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:56 am

When you use Scenalyzer to capture, are you capturing via Firewire?

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

ksuwildcat93 · Post by **ksuwildcat93** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:15 am

Yes, I use a firewire cable between my camera and computer.

I would be surprised if it is a capture problem, though, because I have captured that way for a long time with excellent resulting clips and then edited them in MSP6 without ever having any kind of problem.

I think the problem has to be somewhere in MSP8 handling of aspect ratios/project settings/render settings or title settings because those are all automated (no option for example to choose Keep Aspect Ratio or to alter 4:3 to 16:9) in MSP 6 and it all works perfectly there.

Most video is 4:3 - correct? So why is it forcing me to have 16:9 settings? Is it because I am editing on a widescreen computer so it tries to force the titles there even if I tell it to Keep Aspect Ratio and render it 4:3? (Again this was not a problem in MSP6, but it didn't have the 16:9 option.)

If this is a "wide screen" problem it is going to become more prevalent as more people get wide screen computers.

Anyhow - I may be way off...but thought if I speculated a little I might trigger someone smarter about it than me to go Ahhh Ha! That's it!!

Jerry Jones · Post by **Jerry Jones** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:08 am

I hate to break this to you, but I'm using a widescreen notebook and my titles are rendering just fine in Ulead MediaStudio Pro 8.

I'm capturing via Firewire from two MiniDV camcorder models.

When I get home, I'll look at my settings and try to figure out why you're getting such bizarre results.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

ksuwildcat93 · Post by **ksuwildcat93** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:01 am

Hmmmm. So much for that theory!

I will be very curious to hear if you are rendering 16:9 and if your media source options are set to stretch. I don't have any problems with titles either if I do that.

Do you play your rendered videos only on your widescreen laptop or do you ever play them on a TV or other screen with a 4:3 ratio? I have wanted to render 4:3 to allow my videos to retain aspect ratio and because the screens I use to show videos are 12ft by 9ft.

But the curious thing is that I rendered a test video at 16:9 and played it through the video toaster onto the screens...and it fit. Weird. So now my biggest concern is whether I am distorting the video when I set it to STRETCH in the media source options.

Jerry Jones · Post by **Jerry Jones** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:57 pm

Sorry.

I didn't get a chance to test last night.

I'll do it today (Thursday) when I get home.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

ksuwildcat93 · Post by **ksuwildcat93** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:48 pm

I finally figured it out and I am going to post it in case anyone else is having the same problem and so other people can answer if this problem arises again (there is one other thread on here about it right now).

The issue is that the same aspect ratio has to be set for previewing (proxy files) and for project settings and for rendering. And that aspect ratio has to be the ratio of the raw footage.

In my case I edit on a wide screen laptop so my proxy (preview) and render had defaulted to 16:9. But my source video files were 4:3 - so on media source options I had to stretch them or let them render with black on the sides, which also messed up my titles.

Here is how to set the aspect ratios everywhere they need to be set in order to solve these "widescreen" and aspect ratio problems:

1. Determine if the raw footage is in 4:3 or 16:9 (widescreen). If you are unsure which it is it should become obvious (it is right or not) when you follow these steps.

2. Insert the raw video on the timeline, right click it, go to Media Source Options, and make sure that Keep Aspect Ratio is selected.

3. Go to File Preferences and click on the Smart Proxy tab and go into options. Change the settings to either 4:3 or 16:9 to match the raw footage aspect ratio.

4. Go to Project Settings and click on the edit button and on the general tab change the setting to match the raw footage aspect ratio.

Now when you preview the clip should fill the entire screen without being distorted (stretched). If you have black on the sides or the video is stretched (in media source options) then the settings do not match the raw video's aspect ratio - try again until the previews retain their aspect ratio AND fill the entire preview box.

5. Finally, when you render be sure to go into Options and on the general tab make it match the aspect ratio settings in Proxy and Project settings.

If all of these settings match the aspect ratio of the raw video then the previews and renders should be in the proper aspect ratio (and the titles render properly to0).