On the verge of buying but widescreen problems - help!!

starfire · Post by **starfire** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:59 am

Hi,

I am currently trying out VS10+ trial and really like it, but I have an issue.

All my footage has been captured from a Panasonic NV-DS15 DV camcorder set in "cinema" widescreen mode - this means it captures 4:3 but adds black bars at the top and bottom to make it look widescreen.

When I capture in VS I DO NOT select 16:9 as I figure its not really, its 4:3. In the capture window however the video is vertically squashed making everyone look short and wide.

When I look at the properties of the clip it reports 16:9, and if I insert one into the timeline the project changes to 16:9 - even if I change it back to 4:3 it still appears squashed.

I have read Trevor Andrews guide and understand it but just cannot get around this "squashed" video issue.

Can anyone help please? I am also trying Pinnacle Studio and that is not exhibiting the same issue, it captures fine and the aspect ratio is fine.

I have loaded the actual clips that VS has captured into zoom player and it plays then back fine at the correct AR, it even reports it as 1:1.333.

PLEASE HELP!!!

Any ideas?

ps. I thought it may be just a preview window issue but I've made a whole film and the resulting AVI is also squashed

starfire · Post by **starfire** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:17 am

Anyone any idea?, there must be other people here with 4:3 camcorders that have a pseudo widescreen mode.

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:33 am

Have you tried selecting 16.9 you appear to be convinced that you must use 4.3 even though the program itself is telling you otherwise.

starfire · Post by **starfire** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:45 am

Yes, it makes no difference.

Edit: I thought I had to use 4:3 after reading various postings on here

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:11 am

As a work around you can place the video onto an overlay trck and resize it, unless as you get a response from anyone who uses the same equipment and knows a 'proper' method. Alternatively apply the crop filter.

starfire · Post by **starfire** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:56 pm

Ok, seems a pity I have to use workarounds for what seems to be a pretty simple issue

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:04 pm

Hi

Not sure what is going wrong with your squashed widescreen

Try un-checking ¡VPerform ¡Vnon-square pixel rendering.

File Project Properties-Edit

This should normally be selected, but worth a go

Trevor

Ps are you capturing using firewire to DV-Avi format.

starfire · Post by **starfire** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:16 pm

Hi,

Thanks for your reply, I think you got it!

I checked that, and after changing my background to yellow as per your guide it causes the 4:3 background to have thin black borders down either side vertically BUT the video is the correct aspect ratio.

I then quickly rendered a file and the resulting file is fine, no borders down the side and zoom player reports the correct AR

Any idea why I have to do this, is it possible that my camcorder is outputting some sort of anamorphic signal when connected via firewire to VS ? thats my only thinking.

Any downsides of unticking that option?

Cheers.

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:27 am

Starfire,
Sorry but I don't think you have it right if you had to set incorrect properties to get there. Three wrongs do not make a right (to coin a phrase...).

If your video was shot in 16x9, you should set the aspect ratio at 16x9 when you capture.

If you are editing 16:9 widescreen video then you should set up the Project Properties with Aspect Ratio = 16x9. You also have to select Non-Square pixels because that is the way wide screen operates with a 720x480 video frame. If the pixels were square, the widescreen image would display as all squeezed together horizontally. Pixels have to be rectangular to display wide screen properly.

When I view my widescreen video projects in Video Studio, Edit mode, they extend fully from side to side and there are black bars above and below the frame. Aspect ratio is perfect.

BTW, don't obsess about perfect playback in EDIT mode, whose purpose is to show that things happen in the right sequence.

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:12 am

When I looked up your camcorder on the internet, I found references to the strange Cinema format with black bars on top and bottom. If this is really the way the frame is constructed, then a PAL frame (720x576) would be able to form a 16x9 widescreen image with 720x 405 pixels in the middle of the frame. But these pixels would be rectangular, with a PAR (Pixel Aspect Ratio) appropriate for 4:3 aspect ratio frame.

So I do not understand how you could get proper aspect ratio with square pixels.

This Cimema format is really non-standard and I doubt there are many video editors that would know what to do with it.

If your camera can be coaxed into recording in standard widescreen, you wiill have a much easier time of video editing. If not, then shoot 4:3.

starfire · Post by **starfire** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:53 pm

Hi,

jchunter wrote:Starfire,
Sorry but I don't think you have it right if you had to set incorrect properties to get there. Three wrongs do not make a right (to coin a phrase...).

If your video was shot in 16x9, you should set the aspect ratio at 16x9 when you capture.

I agree totally, but I don't believe I have truly shot in 16:9 which would be anamorphic and my camera doesn't do that.

starfire · Post by **starfire** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:58 pm

jchunter wrote:When I looked up your camcorder on the internet, I found references to the strange Cinema format with black bars on top and bottom. If this is really the way the frame is constructed, then a PAL frame (720x576) would be able to form a 16x9 widescreen image with 720x 405 pixels in the middle of the frame. But these pixels would be rectangular, with a PAR (Pixel Aspect Ratio) appropriate for 4:3 aspect ratio frame.

Yes, thats what it does I believe - record 4:3 but simply impose black bars at the top and bottom thus reducing vertical resolution.

jchunter wrote: So I do not understand how you could get proper aspect ratio with square pixels.

This Cimema format is really non-standard and I doubt there are many video editors that would know what to do with it.

If your camera can be coaxed into recording in standard widescreen, you wiill have a much easier time of video editing. If not, then shoot 4:3.

Yes, I realise now it probably wasn't a wise idea but I have lots of tapes like this that I need to edit unfortunately

I don't really understand why its a problem for VS though, I'm also trying Pinnacle which initially also detects the clips as 16:9 but all you do there is select 4:3 and thats it, it treats it as full frame and no issues from there on. Thats all I want to do with VS to be honest, but it seems without de-selecting that non-square setting it doesn't display or render the correct AR.

I guess I'm the only person who's recorded in this "quasi" widescreen mode then, but it used to be quite popular I think on camcorders around the time mine came out.

Can I assume all new camcorders today record in true 16:9 ?

neonbob · Post by **neonbob** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:27 pm

In very simple terms... your cam shoots a "fake" 16:9. It's a 16:9 image WITHIN a 4:3 box.... Get a piece of paper and draw yourself a rectangle inside a square box... and that's what your cam does. This confuses the heck out of a lot of editors and you end up having to a bit more work to get it right. It used to be this way with Pinacle, but a recent patch has corrected the issue.

starfire · Post by **starfire** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:33 am

Yes, I understand how it records.

I'm just surprised you can't say to VS "Look, this is 4:3 footage and treat it as such" - thats all I want it to do.

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:48 am

Hi

At least you managed to correct the distortions.

How are you capturing via firewire to Dv
Or
A capture card (composite) to DVD here you have to select the capture properties.

E-mail me a short captured clip (just a few seconds long.)

But I think its going to boil down to the camera.

Regards

Trevor