Yes, but who goes from DV to MPEG at 25000 kbit/s? Typically they encode at ~6000 kbit/s ¡Ó2000 kbit/s, so please get back to, at least, Cox's Orange Pippins and Granny Smiths.neonbob wrote: Oh and no... this thread is NOT about DV... it's about WHEN to go from DV to mpeg.
Render project to DV first or straight ot MPG?
[b][i][color=red]Devil[/color][/i][/b]
[size=84]P4 Core 2 Duo 2.6 GHz/Elite NVidia NF650iSLIT-A/2 Gb dual channel FSB 1333 MHz/Gainward NVidia 7300/2 x 80 Gb, 1 x 300 Gb, 1 x 200 Gb/DVCAM DRV-1000P drive/ Pan NV-DX1&-DX100/MSP8/WS2/PI11/C3D etc.[/size]
[size=84]P4 Core 2 Duo 2.6 GHz/Elite NVidia NF650iSLIT-A/2 Gb dual channel FSB 1333 MHz/Gainward NVidia 7300/2 x 80 Gb, 1 x 300 Gb, 1 x 200 Gb/DVCAM DRV-1000P drive/ Pan NV-DX1&-DX100/MSP8/WS2/PI11/C3D etc.[/size]
Who's talking about what is "Typically" done?Devil wrote:Yes, but who goes from DV to MPEG at 25000 kbit/s? Typically they encode at ~6000 kbit/s ¡Ó2000 kbit/s, so please get back to, at least, Cox's Orange Pippins and Granny Smiths.neonbob wrote: Oh and no... this thread is NOT about DV... it's about WHEN to go from DV to mpeg.
I thought we were talking about comparing DV and mpeg. If I go back to your original post, it states that you disagree that dv is more lossless than mpeg from a generational point of view. If you want to do HONEST comparisons then you must at least make SOME kind of effort to put mpeg and and dv on the same playing field before any kind of experiment can ever even begin.
What people tend to forget when comparing the 2 (you included apparently) is that mpeg is extremely flexible in that the bit rate, gop... etc can be adjusted up, down and all over the place. In fact, the bitrate on mpeg can be adjusted to the point where it leaves DV behind in the dust. At 25000k mpeg IS comparable dv, and at 50000k (50M) mpeg quality FAR outwieghs that of dv. Is this the norm? Of course not... for putting info on a dvd anyway. The norm is to covert to mpeg at a HIGH compression so you can get a reasonable amount of info on a disk.... and it is done with mpeg and not dv because DV has not got the flexibilty that is required. (This norm by the way is changing rapidly... mpeg is now being used at more reasonable compression rates in HD)
Yet when it comes to comparing, they tend to campare dv at its best (and worst because its non adjustable) to mpeg at about its worst (dvd compression levels). DUH!!! Well of course dv wins the race every time! Race 2 similar cars but pull a few spark plug wires on 1... well gee... who's coming out on top.... not too hard to guess.
You REALLY wanna compare... okay fine.... level the playing field first.
Who's talking about what is "Typically" done? In fact, if you want to start talking normal and "Typically", then we'll have to right back to the beginning where you started the debate over the fact that mpeg is being smart rendered and dv is not. It's NOT normal to render dv over and over again. And while we're at it... I don't ever remember turning smartrender off while doing the experiment that I mentioned in the beginnig. So if mpeg was being smartrendered, then so was dv, and as I said... the mpeg faired better.... EVEN at 6000k. (I still have the results of the experiment on file in terms of side by side photos... if you suggest a place to post where I don't have to jump through all kinds of hoops... I will gladly post)neonbob wrote:Devil wrote:Yes, but who goes from DV to MPEG at 25000 kbit/s? Typically they encode at ~6000 kbit/s ¡Ó2000 kbit/s, so please get back to, at least, Cox's Orange Pippins and Granny Smiths.neonbob wrote: Oh and no... this thread is NOT about DV... it's about WHEN to go from DV to mpeg.
I thought we were talking about comparing DV and mpeg. If I go back to your original post, it states that you disagree that dv is more lossless than mpeg from a generational point of view. If you want to do HONEST comparisons then you must at least make SOME kind of effort to put mpeg and and dv on the same playing field before any kind of experiment can ever even begin.
What people tend to forget when comparing the 2 (you included apparently) is that mpeg is extremely flexible in that the bit rate, gop... etc can be adjusted up, down and all over the place. In fact, the bitrate on mpeg can be adjusted to the point where it leaves DV behind in the dust. At 25000k mpeg IS comparable dv, and at 50000k (50M) mpeg quality FAR outwieghs that of dv. Is this the norm? Of course not... for putting info on a dvd anyway. The norm is to covert to mpeg at a HIGH compression so you can get a reasonable amount of info on a disk.... and it is done with mpeg and not dv because DV has not got the flexibilty that is required. (This norm by the way is changing rapidly... mpeg is now being used at more reasonable compression rates in HD)
Yet when it comes to comparing, they tend to campare dv at its best (and worst because its non adjustable) to mpeg at about its worst (dvd compression levels). DUH!!! Well of course dv wins the race every time! Race 2 similar cars but pull a few spark plug wires on 1... well gee... who's coming out on top.... not too hard to guess.
You REALLY wanna compare... okay fine.... level the playing field first.
I believe the REAL problem here is that for YEARS the mpeg nay-sayers have been saying "mpeg sucks.... go with dv". People like me for YEARS have been arguing the opposite. Well... now the ballgame is changing... mpeg is going on to bigger and better things... its REAL potential and flexibilty is now coming to light with HD cams and faster computers. About the only advantage that dv ever had over mpeg is good quality at a CHEAP price... and even that advantage is beginning to dwindle. DV is sloooowly being left behind. And now all the mpeg nay-sayers are having to re-adjust their thinking over the years. Some can't even adjust.... they just plug their ears and look the other way.
I used to work with dv (mainly because I had no choice). But I now own a mpeg based hidef HC3 cam, and it simply blows away ANY dv cam that I have EVER owned... and I have owned some nice dv cams in the past.