capture cards

2tired · Post by **2tired** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:24 pm

This is what I am trying to do: I have a whole slew of vhs tapes from many years and would like to port them to dvd. So, I ran the cables (RL audio and composite video over to the computer. Now I need a capture method with which VS-8 will be compatible and I can throw out the old dazzle. A Capture Card? Which kind?

Any help would be appreciated.

Actually when I think about it I guess what I need is a capture card that will just import video with a hardware mpeg-2 conversion? Correct? Then I can just use VS-8 to edit and burn? So what are (reasonably priced) capture cards that you could recommend?

Thanks for listening!

phd · Post by **phd** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 7:06 pm

Would you like to continue to use the old Dazzle 150 to capture?

If yes, did it come with Moviestar 4 or 5?

Does your 150 come with the MPEG encoding chip built -in?

Rends · Post by **Rends** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 7:59 pm

If you want BEST quality then get something like the Canopus ADVC 50/100 Series converter series.
The converters capture to DV.avi wich can be edited easely. Well these convertes are not that cheap. starting at 180 euros if i remember right.

If you want GOOD quality then get a TV Card with Video input .
I have a Pinnacle PCTV Stereo and can capture directly into mpeg2 using VideoStudio8.
If i set the mpeg settings at best (8000Kbits/sec) then you will get good quality and you can store about 1 hour of Video on a DVD.
I don´t suggest to capture directly into mpeg2 at lower bitrates than 6000Kbits or you would loose image quality. I also suggest to capture into mpeg2 only if you don´t want to do much editing!

2tired · Post by **2tired** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:00 pm

Thanks for the response phd.
"Would you like to continue to use the old Dazzle 150 to capture?"

Actually that would be fine. If I could continue to use that just for capture then it would save me from buying a new capture device.

"If yes, did it come with Moviestar 4 or 5?"

It came with Moviestar 5. However I find that pinnacle doesn't support this anymore. And, I have seen a lot of people that are rather hostile to pinnacle.
Here is the problem. Last night I used ms-5 to capture some video but it shut down after 2.0 gigabytes. This version evidently was made only for VCD and not for DVD so it only will capture about 50 minutes.

"Does your 150 come with the MPEG encoding chip built -in?"

This is a quote from the documentation: 'The DVC 150 has an integrated DVD encoder chip which automatically converts video in real-time into the DVD format (MPEG-2) before it lands on your hard disk'

So, I guess that it does contain a hardware chip built in. Then it sends it to the computer via the USB2 interface.

You have given me hope that this can be used to import so that I can edit with VS-8.

What next?

2tired · Post by **2tired** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:40 pm

rends said:
"If you want GOOD quality then get a TV Card with Video input .
I have a Pinnacle PCTV Stereo and can capture directly into mpeg2 using VideoStudio8."

I looked this up and it is within the price range I set.

"If i set the mpeg settings at best (8000Kbits/sec) then you will get good quality and you can store about 1 hour of Video on a DVD.
I don´t suggest to capture directly into mpeg2 at lower bitrates than 6000Kbits or you would loose image quality. I also suggest to capture into mpeg2 only if you don´t want to do much editing!"

I looked at a commercial DVD and they manage to get a full movie into the 4 gigabyte space. That's about 2.8 gig for the movie and the rest for the extras, clips, whatever. The compression of the movies is between 50% (worst) and 90+ (best). I couldn't tell the difference very easily.
The movies I have on vhs are all over 1:20 and less than 2 hours. Mostly 'film noir' cut to vhs for modern users.
So, until I find out from php whether I can still use the dv-150 I'll hold off on a purchase.

thanks

phd · Post by **phd** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:10 pm

The reason I asked all those questions is that there is a workaround to quite a bit of it.

The Dazzle device you have which is probably the DVC-150 is in the same family of devices Dazzle released using the DVXcel MPEG encoder.

Since you have the original Dazzle software and drivers, there is a capture utility that is installed called DVXCELtest.exe. This is a small capture utility that is very powerful. It will allow you to capture at a variety of settings. You can specify the bitrate etc. without being stuck with the 4 standards that were available in MovieStar.

With the standard setup, there is a file size limit of 2GB which you have discovered. You can actually capture larger than that. The files are just split into 2GB chunks with the header info missing from subsequent files. The info on how MovieStar and the utility play back the MPEG is contained in the MZL file that is created. This is simply a text file listing all the files that are part of the capture.

A Dazzle user (Tom Knauf) created a few utilities which can help. These are:
Dtool - Start MS5/DVXCEL capture based on Date/Time.(Updated 7/25/03)

MZLmerge - Merge all files from .mzl file into one.(Updated 8/01/03)

Dtool2 - BETA version of extended-feature Dtool. Check it out! Feedback appreciated!(Updated 7/21/03)

DVXLPTCH - Patch DVXCEL to use larger than 2Gig capture files.(added 8/14/03)

I personally have used the MZL merge and the DVXLPTCH programs. They work very well.

I personally patched the DVXCELtest utility to record in sizes up to 4GB.

Be aware that the MPEG hardware encoder built into the DVC150 only records LPCM audio which is rather large. Should you need MPEG or AC3 for smaller file sizes, you will have to reencode the audio.

These tools were originally posted at Paul Beckers home page which does not appear to be active. http://beckerpm.dyndns.org

I do have them. If you can't locate them and need my help, please PM me with your email address. I can email them to you as an attachment. All 4 files are only about 60 KB!

Please remember, you use them at your own risk. I have used the 2 I had mentioned without any issues., but I make you no guarantee.

Rends · Post by **Rends** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:14 pm

2tired wrote:
I looked at a commercial DVD and they manage to get a full movie into the 4 gigabyte space. That's about 2.8 gig for the movie and the rest for the extras, clips, whatever. The compression of the movies is between 50% (worst) and 90+ (best). I couldn't tell the difference very easily.
The movies I have on vhs are all over 1:20 and less than 2 hours. Mostly 'film noir' cut to vhs for modern users.
So, until I find out from php whether I can still use the dv-150 I'll hold off on a purchase.

thanks

there is a big quality difference if you capture directly into mpeg2 or if you capture to DV.AVI first and convert it to mpeg2 later!
You can capture your movies in DV.avi and next convert them to mpeg2 at lower bitrates than 6000 and you will get a overall good image quality.But this is only the case because the mpeg2 codec don´t need to convert in realtime to get the best result.
But you need realtime converting if you capture directly into mpeg2. So a 4000Kbits videofile of a afterwards converted mpeg2 clip looks better than 4000Kbits realtimecapture mpeg2 clip.

david reece · Post by **david reece** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:05 pm

steer clear of Avermedia capture Cards. they are dire, cheap and nasty with badbly written drivers and software. vs7 worked with it but picture was dreadful. also some capture cards can only manage frame based rather than field based capture which the Avermedai Cards showed up!

I have a Pinnalce DV MovieBox. it works with VS7& 8 as though it was a camcorder. I thought Dazzle had a similar breakout box that the did the same thing.

Best thing is no drivers to load as recognised as a DV Camcorder through firewire plug they do a USB2 version which i understood VS8 has some problems with Usb 2 devices as not supported. you may wish to check out the old webboard before it goes!

THoff · Post by **THoff** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 4:41 pm

There is a database of capture devices on VideoHelp.com, check it out and see the comments from the people who have used these devices.

cpagonis · Post by **cpagonis** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:23 pm

I have a Dazzle DVC 150 that came with the Movie Star software. I found the software kept crashing so I bought Ulead VS7. I captured with the utility that phd mentioned. Everything was fine. I could edit nicely and create VCDs. I noticed that when I tried to create a SVCD teh audio sync was slightly out. When I upgraded my system to include DVD burning capabilities I found that the DVDs and the DVD files for playing on a PC were out of sync by 3 seconds, along with the chapter points! No matter what application I used to create a DVD or DVD files (Ulead, Nero, TMPEG) the results were always the same. Only if I used the DVD creating software that came with the Dazzle was I able to keep the sync in audio and chapters. That software, however was unreliable, plus is no longer supported.
On the advice of Ulead technical support I abandoned the Dazzle and invested in the Canopus ADVC 100 which is not tied to any software. I re-captured the same Hi8 video as DV.AVI files (I have also bought a 250 Gb external drive to store the new source files), made my edits, transitions and chapter points and then created the mpeg 2 DVD files. The result is that I can playback on my PC (via Windows Media Player or Power DVD) with no sync problems
Just thought I would share that with you.

phd · Post by **phd** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:24 pm

The ADVC-100 is a great piece of hardware. Features A/V frame sync lock. Its a good choice when you want to do some serious editing because it captures in DV mode, so you don't suffer the loss at your edit points or adding titles and transitions. The only downside is waiting for the encoding of the video to MPEG.

For people who had the Dazzle products and spent a lot of money on it, it can be frustrating to have to purchase all new equipment to solve the A/V sync issues. If it can be fixed by a simple workaround like using the capture utility instead and not having to buy new equipment, all the better.

For home videos on VHS that I'm transferring to DVD directly or just cutting the "bad" spots I also use VideoReDo which fixes all of my analog capture sync issues.