Long story short:
Box says $30 Rebate For owners of previous versions of Ulead VideoStudio and selected competitors. Details inside.
Inside it says "Bundle versions do not qualify for this rebate"
A penny-ante fraud by Ulead.
check this thread for more details: http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=1509
Well, I finally got through to a human being at Ulead and they are stonewalling the issue.
They won't give an inch and piled paragraph upon paragraph claiming I was the victim of the store's misstake. I countered that THEY could be the victim of the store IF they didn't know the store was selling this box without informing all buyers that the statement Ulead put on box was, to put it politely, a bald-faced lie.
Anyway, to Black Lab: You were right. The solution seems to be with the State Attorney General's office.
Just as soon as my blood pressure goes down a bit, I'll start copying the box, reciepts and rebate forms and writing a cogent summary to accompany a letter to the California AG.
I'll keep you all posted.
Even though it's a little fraud, it's a fraud none the less and I refuse to let it stand.
_________
Steve
P.S. Boy, this V8 better be a pretty huge improvement over my poor ol' V7SE DVD.
Is Ulead fair about rebates? ans: No, not even. Not yet
Moderator: Ken Berry
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rebatefraud
States attroney general does not help that much
I had filed complaints against Soyo earlier with state attorney general. I got a template response that they do not look at individual complaints, but would use this information to create better laws.
You should see if there are local consumer affairs or licensing agencies which Ulead has to report to and file complaint with them too. I too am looking for information where I can file complaint for my multiple missing rebates with ulead.
You should see if there are local consumer affairs or licensing agencies which Ulead has to report to and file complaint with them too. I too am looking for information where I can file complaint for my multiple missing rebates with ulead.
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steve4810
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Max Sendit
Steve, this is something to consider
To Steve and others concerned about the rebate issue,
It's obvious that someone in the promo/legal department goofed! You are absolutely correct. There should have been a disclaimer on the outside of the box which read "...except Video Studio SE versions."
I'm a big Ulead fan. I would hate for Ulead to go down in flames over an issue, a mistake, such as this one. Wouldn't you?
For the most part, I have had very good luck with Ulead products as well as with the company. I have found them to be very helpful and cooperative.
I would imagine there is nashing of teeth and raisng of voices in the Ulead offices over this issue because you are most probably not the only one complaining.
Your $30 is not just one isolated issue. There are thousands of people who have Video Studio 7 SE that came bundled with hardware. I am one of them. If Ulead only had to negotiate with you exclusively, I'm sure they would correct this error immediately and send you a check for $30. The problem here is that if they do it for you, they will have to do it for everyone else. If the correction was exclusively for you, no problem. Since the correction is not only going to have to be for you but also for the thousands of others who will want to take advantage of this obvious mistake, if Ulead tries to correct this problem universally, it would probably result in the destruction of Ulead. Do you really want that to happen over $30?
Remember, this was an obvious mistake. I don't believe it was Ulead's deliberate intention to be fraudulent to the buying public. This would be immensely inconsistent with the way I've been treated by Ulead representatives in the past. Once again, I believe this was a mistake, the kind of mistake people could loose their jobs over. The kind of a mistake which could bring down an excellent company.
As I said before, I really like Ulead's software. I own a bunch of their products. I like the fact that their customer service and tech support and forums are there when I need them. I like the fact that they answer their phones in a reasonable period of time. I don't want that to change because of this mistake.
I would not want to be responsible for contributing to the derailment of Ulead because I took advantage of an obvious mistake even though I knew I was absolutely correct. Judging from the way you seem to like Video Studio 7, I would think you would be inclined to agree with me about this. At least, I hope you do.
By the way, (off the subject), I used to live in San Diego. What part of town do you live in?
It's obvious that someone in the promo/legal department goofed! You are absolutely correct. There should have been a disclaimer on the outside of the box which read "...except Video Studio SE versions."
I'm a big Ulead fan. I would hate for Ulead to go down in flames over an issue, a mistake, such as this one. Wouldn't you?
For the most part, I have had very good luck with Ulead products as well as with the company. I have found them to be very helpful and cooperative.
I would imagine there is nashing of teeth and raisng of voices in the Ulead offices over this issue because you are most probably not the only one complaining.
Your $30 is not just one isolated issue. There are thousands of people who have Video Studio 7 SE that came bundled with hardware. I am one of them. If Ulead only had to negotiate with you exclusively, I'm sure they would correct this error immediately and send you a check for $30. The problem here is that if they do it for you, they will have to do it for everyone else. If the correction was exclusively for you, no problem. Since the correction is not only going to have to be for you but also for the thousands of others who will want to take advantage of this obvious mistake, if Ulead tries to correct this problem universally, it would probably result in the destruction of Ulead. Do you really want that to happen over $30?
Remember, this was an obvious mistake. I don't believe it was Ulead's deliberate intention to be fraudulent to the buying public. This would be immensely inconsistent with the way I've been treated by Ulead representatives in the past. Once again, I believe this was a mistake, the kind of mistake people could loose their jobs over. The kind of a mistake which could bring down an excellent company.
As I said before, I really like Ulead's software. I own a bunch of their products. I like the fact that their customer service and tech support and forums are there when I need them. I like the fact that they answer their phones in a reasonable period of time. I don't want that to change because of this mistake.
I would not want to be responsible for contributing to the derailment of Ulead because I took advantage of an obvious mistake even though I knew I was absolutely correct. Judging from the way you seem to like Video Studio 7, I would think you would be inclined to agree with me about this. At least, I hope you do.
By the way, (off the subject), I used to live in San Diego. What part of town do you live in?
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steve4810
Max,
Sorry but I couldn't disagree more.
1. I think the industry standard is to use bundled editions as an entree to the full product and always give discounts to those users who upgrade.
2. If there was a goof, it was INSIDE in the fine print where some bright bulb tried to exclude bundle owners. Somebody should have seen this and sent emails to all who registered in the time since the first packages with the fraud shipped informing all that they may indeed be eligible even if they had 7SE.
3. This "double rebate, final cost 9.95" sale first occurred in December and was repeated 60 days later. More than enough time for Ulead to realize what was happening.
4. Ulead effectively gives a $50 discount on the $99 full price product by allowing the upgrade version to install in SE versions without problem. I'd be willing to bet that you could download and do that today. By this logic the $30 rebate on the $99 product is less of a financial "hardship" for Ulead.
5. In terms of actual cost, software has extremely low unit costs. I would guess that there isn't more than $5 tied up in the product so unless they wholesale if for less than $35 they make a profit even with the rebate.
I think it's Enron and MCI incarnate. A calloused attempt to increase sales through fraud.
And I don't want just me to get the 30 bucks. It's all those who thought they were eligible but just swore and tossed out the rebate coupon, effectively encouraging this behavior that should be compensated.
I've got a really tough letter drafted to the CA Attorney General but have yet to mail it because I, just like Ulead, would let others seek their own justice and not mail it if Ulead were to honor their commitment to me. A sad lack of principle on my part. But in my defense I have exposed the whole mess here.
Right now the draft is with an attorney to be sure I don't liable Ulead and just as soon as that review is completed I'll be sending a draft to Ulead along with a last chance offer to settle.
Sorry but I couldn't disagree more.
1. I think the industry standard is to use bundled editions as an entree to the full product and always give discounts to those users who upgrade.
2. If there was a goof, it was INSIDE in the fine print where some bright bulb tried to exclude bundle owners. Somebody should have seen this and sent emails to all who registered in the time since the first packages with the fraud shipped informing all that they may indeed be eligible even if they had 7SE.
3. This "double rebate, final cost 9.95" sale first occurred in December and was repeated 60 days later. More than enough time for Ulead to realize what was happening.
4. Ulead effectively gives a $50 discount on the $99 full price product by allowing the upgrade version to install in SE versions without problem. I'd be willing to bet that you could download and do that today. By this logic the $30 rebate on the $99 product is less of a financial "hardship" for Ulead.
5. In terms of actual cost, software has extremely low unit costs. I would guess that there isn't more than $5 tied up in the product so unless they wholesale if for less than $35 they make a profit even with the rebate.
I think it's Enron and MCI incarnate. A calloused attempt to increase sales through fraud.
And I don't want just me to get the 30 bucks. It's all those who thought they were eligible but just swore and tossed out the rebate coupon, effectively encouraging this behavior that should be compensated.
I've got a really tough letter drafted to the CA Attorney General but have yet to mail it because I, just like Ulead, would let others seek their own justice and not mail it if Ulead were to honor their commitment to me. A sad lack of principle on my part. But in my defense I have exposed the whole mess here.
Right now the draft is with an attorney to be sure I don't liable Ulead and just as soon as that review is completed I'll be sending a draft to Ulead along with a last chance offer to settle.
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Max Sendit
Some more thought on the rebate problem
Steve,
This is all amazing to me because my experience with Ulead and Ulead's representatives has been nothing but positive.
Taking into consideration what you said about Ulead having enough time to correct this mistake from a previous situation a few months ago, I still think initially this was a mistake. Correcting that mistake may have been more difficult and more costly than may be easy to realize. Some years ago, I knew a man who wrote a book. When the book was published and already on store shelves, it was discovered that the proof reader had not done his job properly and there were some glaring errors in the book. This was a significant problem, specifically for this book, because it was a technical book and these errors could completely negate certain aspects of the technical ideas in the book. I was told the cost and hassle involved in taking this book back off the shelves was so high that it caused a delay in several months in doing this. There were distributors to consider and a variety of other considerations.
Needless, to say, the author of the book was really annoyed and stressed over this situation which, indeed, could potentially cost him his reputation.
Eventually, the situation was straightened out but it took well over a year to full rectify the problem.
I think there may be some similarity in the situation with Ulead.
I can't help but find fault with Fry's because of the way you describe the story. The thought of Video Studio 8 selling for $9.95 is more than rediculous. Someone in Fry's apparently made a huge blunder on this one in addition to the mistake made by Ulead. I would never expect to ever see an advertisement promoting the sell of Video Studio 8 for $9.95. If I ever saw such an ad, I would become very suspicious. I have Video Studio 8 and I think it is worth the retail price. Don't get me wrong, I would take a discount on it (or a rebate) and I would take it for $9.95 if I was sure it was the legit full product but I would never expect such a thing to happen.
I do understand your thinking and, as I said before, I am inclined to agree with you about this situation. I do disagree with you about one aspect of your previous post. I think Ulead's costs for producing each unit is much higher than $5. I think the financial strain placed on Ulead will be much higher than you realize. I have been in business and I can assure you the financial drain for problems such as these is much higher than most people realize.
I called and spoke to one of the Ulead representatives about this situation. He assured me that something is being done about it. I asked him what and that he was unable to disclose but he said something is definitely being done to rectify this matter.
I thought you would like to know that.
This is all amazing to me because my experience with Ulead and Ulead's representatives has been nothing but positive.
Taking into consideration what you said about Ulead having enough time to correct this mistake from a previous situation a few months ago, I still think initially this was a mistake. Correcting that mistake may have been more difficult and more costly than may be easy to realize. Some years ago, I knew a man who wrote a book. When the book was published and already on store shelves, it was discovered that the proof reader had not done his job properly and there were some glaring errors in the book. This was a significant problem, specifically for this book, because it was a technical book and these errors could completely negate certain aspects of the technical ideas in the book. I was told the cost and hassle involved in taking this book back off the shelves was so high that it caused a delay in several months in doing this. There were distributors to consider and a variety of other considerations.
Needless, to say, the author of the book was really annoyed and stressed over this situation which, indeed, could potentially cost him his reputation.
Eventually, the situation was straightened out but it took well over a year to full rectify the problem.
I think there may be some similarity in the situation with Ulead.
I can't help but find fault with Fry's because of the way you describe the story. The thought of Video Studio 8 selling for $9.95 is more than rediculous. Someone in Fry's apparently made a huge blunder on this one in addition to the mistake made by Ulead. I would never expect to ever see an advertisement promoting the sell of Video Studio 8 for $9.95. If I ever saw such an ad, I would become very suspicious. I have Video Studio 8 and I think it is worth the retail price. Don't get me wrong, I would take a discount on it (or a rebate) and I would take it for $9.95 if I was sure it was the legit full product but I would never expect such a thing to happen.
I do understand your thinking and, as I said before, I am inclined to agree with you about this situation. I do disagree with you about one aspect of your previous post. I think Ulead's costs for producing each unit is much higher than $5. I think the financial strain placed on Ulead will be much higher than you realize. I have been in business and I can assure you the financial drain for problems such as these is much higher than most people realize.
I called and spoke to one of the Ulead representatives about this situation. He assured me that something is being done about it. I asked him what and that he was unable to disclose but he said something is definitely being done to rectify this matter.
I thought you would like to know that.
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rebatefraud
I cannot believe you can have positve experience with ulead
I never ever purchased ulead products before. I have used pinnacle and was happy with their products.
The first Ulead product I purchased was PictureShow 2 from Frys with double rebate on Oct 8th 2004. There were $10 and $20.00 rebates on the product in the end it was free.
I sent rebates promptly before Oct 15th. I am still waiting for rebates checks. The rebate for $10.00 went to Ulead directly (torrance, CA) and rebate for $20.00 went to rebatestatus.com.
In Jan, I called rebatestatus.com and got a message "This company has closed all promotion activity".
Then, I tried calling ulead directly several times. Initially I always got answering machine of a lady Michelle martin. Then I started getting answering machine of "rebate department" promissing to call me in 24-48 hrs. Recently the Machine promised to call me in a week.
Several messages and noone ever called me. I have even sent several emails to customer service, they either bounced or went unanswered.
In the mean time, I made mistake of buying VideoStudio 8 on double rebate (70-30-30) and Disc Creator 8 ( 50-30-20).
Now I am waiting for 30+30+30+20+10+20 i.e. 140 bucks in rebate. You can argue that paying my rebate will make ulead bankrupt, well that they should have thought about before advertizing the rebates to sell the products.
I do not believe that this company even cares about customers.
Hey steve, you can buy Roxio VideoWave 7 for Free after rebate at compusa this week, you will then qualify (legaly) for ulead rebate. Although I recomend that unless you really have pressing need to upgrade and are ok to spend 70.00 for it, you should try to return and get your money back, this rebate issue is actually a good reason to return and store may allow it. Otherwise you may have to wait for rebate form ulead for maybe <forever> and still not get anything.
The only difference between now and then will be that you sent rebate forms to them.
I do not uderstand the Maxs argument, that company can pay to people who have competitors product (even if its free anyway) and not to loyal customers upgrading.
The first Ulead product I purchased was PictureShow 2 from Frys with double rebate on Oct 8th 2004. There were $10 and $20.00 rebates on the product in the end it was free.
I sent rebates promptly before Oct 15th. I am still waiting for rebates checks. The rebate for $10.00 went to Ulead directly (torrance, CA) and rebate for $20.00 went to rebatestatus.com.
In Jan, I called rebatestatus.com and got a message "This company has closed all promotion activity".
Then, I tried calling ulead directly several times. Initially I always got answering machine of a lady Michelle martin. Then I started getting answering machine of "rebate department" promissing to call me in 24-48 hrs. Recently the Machine promised to call me in a week.
Several messages and noone ever called me. I have even sent several emails to customer service, they either bounced or went unanswered.
In the mean time, I made mistake of buying VideoStudio 8 on double rebate (70-30-30) and Disc Creator 8 ( 50-30-20).
Now I am waiting for 30+30+30+20+10+20 i.e. 140 bucks in rebate. You can argue that paying my rebate will make ulead bankrupt, well that they should have thought about before advertizing the rebates to sell the products.
I do not believe that this company even cares about customers.
Hey steve, you can buy Roxio VideoWave 7 for Free after rebate at compusa this week, you will then qualify (legaly) for ulead rebate. Although I recomend that unless you really have pressing need to upgrade and are ok to spend 70.00 for it, you should try to return and get your money back, this rebate issue is actually a good reason to return and store may allow it. Otherwise you may have to wait for rebate form ulead for maybe <forever> and still not get anything.
The only difference between now and then will be that you sent rebate forms to them.
I do not uderstand the Maxs argument, that company can pay to people who have competitors product (even if its free anyway) and not to loyal customers upgrading.
Last edited by rebatefraud on Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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steve4810
Max,
It isn't ridiculous to see VS8 for $9.95. This kind of thing happens all the time and is usually a sign of a company with severe cash flow problems or an excess of stale inventory to liquidate before introducing a newer version.
There have been other threads that mention Fry's $9.95 sale and as rebatefraud said they have done it with other of Ulead's products. And Ulead has had double rebate sales for a year or more that I know of.
Anyway, Fry's is a very large electronics retailer and specializes in "blowout sales" just like the the Ulead events quoted in this thread. They have done nothing wrong and I wouldn't go to them for redress of my grievances. Fry's simply put a regular $99 software package on sale for $70. Then they pointed out that there was two $30 rebates. One coupon did mention both Ulead and Fry's but the other was strictly a Ulead affair.
As to Ulead support: Yes they are first rate and it is sad to think they may loose their jobs due to management's incompetence. If I were to get the rebate due me I would gladly sent it to a support person at Ulead if I knew of one who needed it.
And I too used to be in business. I've even been brought in by a bank to handle the financial affairs of an in distress company looking for a new credit line to help them over a rough spot. Of course these folk are usually pretty distraught and would at times put their head in their hands and sob late in the evenings while we worked as hard as we could trying to find a way out for them.
Then they got into their Porches and drove to their homes a few blocks from a beautiful southern California beach. And of course the employees took pay cuts and ultimately all lost their jobs. I left late at night too in a piece of crap Oldsmobile diesel.
The folks in the trenches at Ulead are doing yeoman work. What can you say about the CFO, CEO and chairman of the board? I doubt they are down to their last dollars. Millions maybe.
It isn't ridiculous to see VS8 for $9.95. This kind of thing happens all the time and is usually a sign of a company with severe cash flow problems or an excess of stale inventory to liquidate before introducing a newer version.
There have been other threads that mention Fry's $9.95 sale and as rebatefraud said they have done it with other of Ulead's products. And Ulead has had double rebate sales for a year or more that I know of.
Anyway, Fry's is a very large electronics retailer and specializes in "blowout sales" just like the the Ulead events quoted in this thread. They have done nothing wrong and I wouldn't go to them for redress of my grievances. Fry's simply put a regular $99 software package on sale for $70. Then they pointed out that there was two $30 rebates. One coupon did mention both Ulead and Fry's but the other was strictly a Ulead affair.
As to Ulead support: Yes they are first rate and it is sad to think they may loose their jobs due to management's incompetence. If I were to get the rebate due me I would gladly sent it to a support person at Ulead if I knew of one who needed it.
And I too used to be in business. I've even been brought in by a bank to handle the financial affairs of an in distress company looking for a new credit line to help them over a rough spot. Of course these folk are usually pretty distraught and would at times put their head in their hands and sob late in the evenings while we worked as hard as we could trying to find a way out for them.
Then they got into their Porches and drove to their homes a few blocks from a beautiful southern California beach. And of course the employees took pay cuts and ultimately all lost their jobs. I left late at night too in a piece of crap Oldsmobile diesel.
The folks in the trenches at Ulead are doing yeoman work. What can you say about the CFO, CEO and chairman of the board? I doubt they are down to their last dollars. Millions maybe.
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Max Sendit
Hmmm.... Disturbing news to say the least. I do understand everyone's perspective on this and I understand why you are bothered by this situation. I went on the Fry's site and didn't see Video Studo 8 advertised at all. Someone said that they thought Ulead doesn't care about it's customers. I think this particular situation has caused a reaction from Ulead that isn't normal. As I stated in previous posts, my experiences with Ulead reps have been very positive. They have been very helpful to me.
I've never purchased anything from Ulead using a rebate. I've received discounts on some things purchased through on line companies but, once again, I've never used a rebate for Ulead products.
Maybe it's because I own so many Ulead products that I wasn't transferred to an answering machine when I asked about this rebate situation this afternoon. Maybe the rep I spoke to considered me to be way to valuable of a customer to put "on the string". Whatever the reason, when I asked him what Ulead was going to do about this problem, his answer was quick and to the point. He told me he didn't know for sure what they were going to do but he guaranteed me they were definitely going to do something very soon to resolve this issue. For your sakes, I certainly hope so.
I've never purchased anything from Ulead using a rebate. I've received discounts on some things purchased through on line companies but, once again, I've never used a rebate for Ulead products.
Maybe it's because I own so many Ulead products that I wasn't transferred to an answering machine when I asked about this rebate situation this afternoon. Maybe the rep I spoke to considered me to be way to valuable of a customer to put "on the string". Whatever the reason, when I asked him what Ulead was going to do about this problem, his answer was quick and to the point. He told me he didn't know for sure what they were going to do but he guaranteed me they were definitely going to do something very soon to resolve this issue. For your sakes, I certainly hope so.
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rebatefraud
Frys outpost links to ulead products with rebate.
Here are the links to frys/outpost website:
Video Studio 8
http://shop3.outpost.com/product/4026532
Here is the link to Movie factory 3.0 with double rebate
http://shop3.outpost.com/product/3963268
Well Max I am sure if you are using ulead products professionally then you may have purchased more products than me, however at this time I purchased 3 products (Photoshow 2, Ulead VideoStudio 8 and Movie Factory 3.0).
I think these should be significant. Anyway, everybody has his opinion. I cannot change mine unless I see myrebate checks.
Video Studio 8
http://shop3.outpost.com/product/4026532
Here is the link to Movie factory 3.0 with double rebate
http://shop3.outpost.com/product/3963268
Well Max I am sure if you are using ulead products professionally then you may have purchased more products than me, however at this time I purchased 3 products (Photoshow 2, Ulead VideoStudio 8 and Movie Factory 3.0).
I think these should be significant. Anyway, everybody has his opinion. I cannot change mine unless I see myrebate checks.