Invalid parameter during Capture

etech6355 · Post by **etech6355** » Wed May 23, 2007 4:35 am

which I think was later converted to a more expensive/less durable frisbee by my children

Are you aware that Panasonic has protective cartridges to hold 5 1/4" dvd media? I use them all the time because of what you posted (and laughing, I don't blame the kids when handling the media, dvd disks are fragile). If you look on the panasonic website you can get double-sided dvd-ram disks already installed into a protective cartridge. A double-sided disk you can filp them over in the record (also have write-protect tabs on the cartridges). The cartridges have tabs and the media can be removed & switched out.
If you look at the dvd tray in the panasonic units you will see the side brackets on the tray where you put the dvd's into. These side brackets line up the cartridges. They are great to have. You can throw them onto a couch or drop them on the floor and the dvd-ram disk is untouched (within reason of course).

Sometimes copying the contents to your harddisk (all the folders) first and then use the import dvd function to import the video from your harddisk. When using DVD+RW dvd's usually this format is the DVD+VR format, there were some issues with the +VR import function awhile back, it was fixed in one of the patches.

aieronimo,
Womble's software is dedicated to mpeg editing, nice software.
I can usually import the dvd-ram disks without a problem, but after your post I do remember many of the errors at the end of the import are where I cut the video.
I haven't come across the bad spot though on making a new dvd disk.
What I have come across was I put the protection feature to ON for one of the movies I had recorded and forgot it was on.
Imported that movie without any errors. It wouldn't playback correctly in my standard dvd players (only the advanced players). Removed this protect feature on the video and re-imported the movie again. This fixed this little quirk. I thought this protection was only a panasonic thing for in the recorder.

Robs idea may work, I would try a dvd-rw disk that could be re-used.
Also Rob, if you can record to a dvd-rw disk may give you better results. The dvd-ram records in the -VR format. The dvd-rw disk will create a standard dvd media dvd with the exception you can re-use the dvd. This may be more reliable. You can't trim the video or edit it though, but you can do this in VS or MF.

Robbie Noordzy · Post by **Robbie Noordzy** » Wed May 23, 2007 7:26 am

Thanks for the program references aieronimo - downloading the demo's now.

Just did quick test recording 2 x 1minute tv programs & trimmed one by a few seconds. The un-trimmed copied fine into VideoStudio.

Thanks for the info as well etech. I'll go & round up some -RW's after work & have a play tonight.

For those interested in the protective cartridges, I'd also suggest 10-20m of string as an accessory so when your disk goes missing (as mine did), not only will your data be protected, there's a good chance you can find it again

Robbie

Robbie Noordzy · Post by **Robbie Noordzy** » Wed May 23, 2007 12:46 pm

GOOD NEWS!!!

Hey guys, here's something you might want to check out & confirm.
After work I picked up some DVD-RW's & after (finally) getting the kids into bed tried copying trimmed videos & importing them into Video Studio.

It worked!!!!
It seemed to be a bit better image quality though that could be due to my excitement...

Worth noting that my videos were only trimmed at the extremities & not in the middle anywhere so I don't know if it works in the situation where you've trimmed out ads for example.

Anyone else tried DVD-RWs at all?

Robbie

aieronimo · Post by **aieronimo** » Wed May 23, 2007 2:10 pm

I tried DVD-RWs -- Sony's brand, which aren't cheap -- but had some problems with the Panasonic recorder stopping in the middle of a recording or being unable to read the disk after a couple of uses. So I went back to DVD-RAMs -- which are more convenient and never fail.

Earlier in this thread, kzack noted that he downloaded Panasonic DVD-MovieAlbum SE and was able to effectively import video from his Panasonic recorder (presumably with trims). I have read about this program elsewhere, as well. I'd like to try it but cannot find it. Some have suggested that it was only available with certain models of Panasonic recorder, and then only in Japanese (which I don't speak). Does anyone know whether I can download a copy of this program? I tried Googling for it, but was unsuccessful.

Thanks.

etech6355 · Post by **etech6355** » Wed May 23, 2007 4:44 pm

DVD-RW media can be picky, depends on the brand. Sounds like possibly defective disks or incompatible media. I've used the TDK & JVC brands, I don't care for the Sony ones I bought. You may also have to check on the type of dvd-rw and the speed it's rated at, some are not compatible.

Going by these posts it sounds to me like my equipment is the earlier versions of the panasonic line of recorders. Only one of my pana recorders can record to dvd-rw, when it does it records in the same format as a dvd-r disk which is standard DVD-Video, I cannot edit the videos, its either keep it or delete it.
The other recorders only record to internal harddisk, dvd-ram or dvd-r disk.

I haven't had time to experiment with the sub-titles on these disks. This is a new feature in VS11+ for importing, just wondering if this could also cause an issue when cutting into the video stream of a dvd-ram disk.

aieronimo · Post by **aieronimo** » Wed May 23, 2007 5:24 pm

My recorder is Panasonic DMR-ES15S, which cannot record subtitles from closed-captioned broadcasts. If you are referring to the subtitles that come on commercial disks, I have not been working with commercial disks and so don't think that subtitles are at the root of the "invalid parameter during capture" problem.

Regarding the "group of pictures" issue that I think is the source of the problem, note the following text excerpted from an advertisement for the JVC SR-DVM600 recorder:

"Using the Synchronized Editing System function, video data that has been edited on the hard disk of the SR-DVM600 can be transferred digitally to a disc in the DVD recorder, helping to preserve picture quality and ensuring that DVD playback will be seamless with no visible edit points. This is made possible by the effective use of the intra-coded picture (I), predictive-coded picture (P), and bi-directionally predictive-coded picture (B) frame information within each Group of Pictures (GOP) during editing operations. The I and P frames contain information that determines picture quality and by maintaining their position within the GOP, it is possible to minimize degradation when dubbing so there are no "freeze" pauses at edit points during DVD playback for a smooth and natural, high-quality DVD recording."

In short, it seems that JVC recognizes the GOP problem and offers a recorder that avoids the problem. It's too bad that Panasonic did not do the same.

etech6355 · Post by **etech6355** » Wed May 23, 2007 5:42 pm

I also have this recorder, it's the only one that can record to dvd-rw disks.
I don't experience when cutting or editing a dvd-ram disk any pausing or hangs when playing back or converting to standard dvd's from my other recorders.
Haven't used the 15 unit that much so this weekend after recording on it I'll edit and try to import the edited footage using other importing software. Going by your posts I know I'll get the errors using the ulead importing module.

It's only the ulead importing software that generates this incorrect parameter message by the way. Other software imports fine.
I think it's a combination of my dvd reader & the software.
If I use a different dvd reader to import the ram-disks when using the ulead software to import I can get different results versus importing using other software.

There is also another product I use called DVD Movie Factory, I'll use the MF software and test out the Edit Disk function. I can extract the editing dvd-ram videos using the edit disk program. Curious to see if I get any errors using that program compared to the direct importing feature.

I'll make sure to do this on the DMR-15 unit so we are both using the same recorders.

aieronimo · Post by **aieronimo** » Wed May 23, 2007 7:02 pm

Thanks very much. By the way, what DVD reader are you using? Mine is an LG model. I had read on some websites (CD Freaks, among them) that the LG readers and DVD-RAMs recorded on Panasonic recorders did not play well together. Are you using an LG reader?

I have also found that other software (e.g., Womble's MPEG-VCR) import fine. However, these other programs will freeze during play at the point of the improper GOP cut.

Also by the way, you referenced "another product" as DVD Movie Factory. But isn't that the program we're talking about? I'm getting the "invalid parameter" message using Movie Factory. Did you mean to name another program?

Thanks again.

etech6355 · Post by **etech6355** » Wed May 23, 2007 7:26 pm

The other program I was referencing was "Nero" there are a few versions of Nero. Nero imports slower than the other programs, seems to be analyzing the file more.

The reader(s) I've been using is a Lite-On (older model) read-only.
The other ones that work better are the Triple-Format Maddog dvd writers and the newer Sony dvd writers that support the dvd-ram format.

I'll record & cut/edit on the DMR-15 this weekend and try using the different reader/writers I have to see if it makes any difference.
Usually when I get the videos onto my harddisk then in VS I make sure my project settings are equal to the source videos average bit rate. Then export to a new file, VS will use smart-render to create the new file and re-stamp everything. This should fix the pausing problem with the bad GOP's. Another way would be to turn off the smart-rendering feature in VS. Not sure how much of a quality loss can occur when doing this.

The thing I always have to remember is that the Pana units use 704 and not 720 framesize. Sometimes I forget and render to a 720 file which will cause appreciable loss if re-rendering to a new frame size.
In VS under "Preferences" there is an option "Show message when inserting first video clip into timeline". This should be checked ON so VS will automatically set the Project Settings to match the source video.
This can be a slight problem though if recorded in the SD mode because Panasonic encodes the video at an average bit rate of @ 4200+ but marks the mpeg2 video as a maximum bit rate of between 9100-9800. This will cause VS to estimate the project file size higher than it should be.
If using smart-render the new file will come out with the correct values. If not using smart render then VS will re-encode to the project settings.
The difference here is 2 different mpeg encoders.
But, smart-rendering should always produce the same output as the source videos.

I would use the new "Mpeg Optimizer" which will keep the file sizes the same with a minimum amount of loss to the video (actually no loss at all if the video is smart-rendered). Haven't tested this new feature to much on standard definition video but it does work very nice for the High Definition Video files in Program Stream.

aieronimo · Post by **aieronimo** » Wed May 23, 2007 7:44 pm

I don't have Video Studio, just Movie Factory. So I don't suppose that most of those suggestions would apply to me.

Regarding the Panasonic 704 vs. 720 used by others, I was unaware of that. On Movie Factory, I am using "smart render," and assumed that the file was not being re-rendered. But your point about 704 vs. 720 makes me wonder if this is the case. Give the slow speed of my computer (600 Mhz), I really doubt that I'm re-rendering any video. If I skip menu creation, everything is done in about an hour -- hence probably no re-rendering.

Can you clarify that point about 704 vs. 720 a bit, as well as give me your advice as to how to process the video imported from the Panasonic recorder as little as possible in Movie Factory?

Thanks again.

etech6355 · Post by **etech6355** » Wed May 23, 2007 8:18 pm

In MF when you click on the GEAR Icon these are the Project settings.
There is an option "Do Not convert dvd compliant mpeg2 files". This should normally be checked ON.
When importing or inserting videos in MF make sure the setting under the GEAR Icon match your source video(s).
Gear Icon -> Change Mpeg Settings -> Customize if MF doesn't automatically do this, you then manually set them and save the project.

IF you click on the lower left corner you can select Disc Template Manager.
In this module you can create custom templates and when going into the GEAR Project settings just pick your customized template as your project settings.
When MF has to re-render (not smart rendered ) then it will re-encode the video using the "Project Settings". But, usually if the project settings video bit rate equals the source video then MF will use smart render. It does get confusing when smart render works and doesn't work. You will know though because re-render takes much longer.

If you click on the Export Icon and select "Fast Export" this feature ignores the project settings and uses the settings in the source video file to re-encode the video. It's very fast, especially for a slow machine.
The Fast Export DVD Compliant will recreate the video file using the Project Settings but ONLY if the video is not already dvd compliant. It's confusing when using this feature. You can also force a smart render recode in accordance to the project settings by trimming some frames from the beginning or the end of the video(s).

A nice feature to use is when the Project Settings equal the source videos settings, you join the 2 videos using the Join feature. Then export and select "Fast Export Dvd Compliant". The program will use the project settings to export and create the new video file. If the video-bit-rate matches the source videos they will be smart-rendered.
So if your source videos are pcm, mpeg, or dolby 2/0 and your project settings are for Dolby 5.1 audio when you export the audio in the source videos will be converted to Dolby 5.1. The video will be smart-rendered.

There are a few different methods to do this in MF.
Most important is keeping the framesize = source framesize.

Robbie Noordzy · Post by **Robbie Noordzy** » Wed May 23, 2007 9:31 pm

Most of the conversation is going over my head but just for reference sake, I have a relatively new Panasonic model - DMR-EH55 - I guess good news for some.

Thanks again.
Robbie

Robbie Noordzy · Post by **Robbie Noordzy** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:45 am

Just an afterthought...

The DVD-RWs while they processed the info ok, seemed to mess up some of the video on longer projects even as short as half an hour (I had only tried it on a minute length video).

With the DVD-RAMs it still bucks at the 99% mark but saving the temporary file on offer still means I have the full program saved in disc... maybe a bit is not all there on the end I'm not sure, but seeing as I have room either end it doesn't matter.

Robbie

etech6355 · Post by **etech6355** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:51 am

I think aieronimo has pointed out an important point if you trim the video on the recorder(s).
I formatted a ramdisk in the recorder, recorded a 30 minute show.
Didn't trim or do anything to the ramdisk, MF imported it fine. Going by past experience I do get the errors in MF and the errors are at the points where I've made the trims on the recorder.

kzack · Post by **kzack** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:47 pm

This is what I did to get the Panasonic MovieAlbum SE 3:........

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