MSP* and Vista

[Devil]

Vista, pahh, who needs it? I don't

And that is exactly why I've uninstalled Vista.

[skier-hughes]

Devil,
I thought you only used a beta version, which release version did you buy, try adn remove?


Steve,
Taken from Dec 2001,

Any DV stored as type-1 cannot be used with VfW-based editors.

• Microsoft is providing DV encoder and decoder filters for DirectShow only, and will not provide support for encoding or decoding DV video data for VfW.

So it's not new news that MS were not supporting VFW, with direct show supporting both type 1 and 2 dv-avi file types.

WDM does appear to be supported in Vista, so I'm unsure what thya re getting at here, apart from maybe it's WDM devices that use VFW, which aren't supported.

[Devil]

Devil,
I thought you only used a beta version, which release version did you buy, try adn remove?


Steve,
Taken from Dec 2001,

Any DV stored as type-1 cannot be used with VfW-based editors.

¡E Microsoft is providing DV encoder and decoder filters for DirectShow only, and will not provide support for encoding or decoding DV video data for VfW.

So it's not new news that MS were not supporting VFW, with direct show supporting both type 1 and 2 dv-avi file types.

WDM does appear to be supported in Vista, so I'm unsure what thya re getting at here, apart from maybe it's WDM devices that use VFW, which aren't supported.

I went as far as the last release candidate with updates; that was sufficient to make me decide to uninstall without wasting my ¢G135!

[skier-hughes]

But RC2 is so different to the current version, so you aren't really comparing like with like.

[Devil]

I saw enough that my apps did not work, confirmed by others with the release version. Why are you arguing about that? I intend not wasting my ¢G135.18 buying something that does not allow me to do what I wish it to do, isn't that clear?

[skier-hughes]

I'm arguing about the fact you are slagging something off which you've never tried..... The end product.

Would you dream of slagging off MSP in the same manner because you used a beta version and you didn't like it and you saw people complaining about it?????

Of course not, people come to forums because they have problems, so that's all you'll read, when did someone just post a first post on here saing, wow, I've just bought MSP/VS/MF and say "am I glad I did, it is all working fine"???

Same with all of the satisfied Vista users, they are unlikely to be doing that, as they are enjoying their computing.

It's very clear that you don't want it, and I'm not bothered if you do or don't, but you don't have to keep harping on about how useless it is when it clearly isn't for the vast majority of people using it.

But Vista is new, it is bound to throw up problems, as unlike Mac's the permutationsof pc's is virtualy endless, so you can't possibly test in all circumstances.

Are you telling me when MSP was released nobody had problems with XP? Windows 98? Conflicts with other apps and hardware??????

I'm just trying to put it into context.

[Devil]

I'm arguing about the fact you are slagging something off which you've never tried..... The end product.

No, I haven't tried the end product, but I have tried the previous one and I have read innumerable messages by those who HAVE tried the end product and are experiencing exactly the same problems as I have had. And not just with MSP.

I simply do not seem to get it into your head:
a) many applications do not work under Vista (and not just MSP or other video ones)
b) those video applications that do work under Vista render/encode considerably slower than under XP (I did not benchmark the relative speeds, but I observed the difference, others have confirmed this with the release version)
c) many modern peripherals still lack Vista drivers, including graphics and sound cards.
d) Vista does not allow third party security software to function correctly

Provided you have a powerful enough, modern computer, I dare say that Vista is fine if all you're using is MS Office, answering e-mails and browsing the Internet, but so is Windows 98 with 3rd party security software, requiring only one-tenth of the HDD space in the boot partition and working much faster.

I'm not slagging Vista, I'm objecting to MS releasing badly developed products that force third parties to spend a lot of money re-writing their software to conform to the arbitrary behaviour of an OS. I don't know whether you know how costly this process is. I work closely with a company making ECAD software. They spent literally thousands of man-hours to get it to work under Vista. They then spent more time again alpha and beta testing it, not only under Vista, but also under XP and W2k, to make sure that it would continue working under these ones. Their estimated cost for this exercise was about ¢G250,000 without a single penny coming in from this investment.

[skier-hughes]

So the company do not expect to sell any of their product to vista users?

I have it in my head, but I'm just saying it's not everyone and every app which doesn't work. Yes there are still many, but in a few months most will be running. You'll find exactly these arguements when XP came out, but that doesn't stop you running XP now does it.

Vista brings some new ways of doing things, like gpu use for video editing, which will make things much faster when apps start to use this function.

It was a few years ago you had to spend a lot fo money on real time encoding hardware to do a job that vista and the right apps will now do..... progress doesn't come without some drawbacks.

Although I still argue that there is no discernable difference in the working of everyday video projects in vista that I have done using, movie maker/dvd maker in vista and adobe premiere.



< - HANDSHAKE ->

[Devil]

So the company do not expect to sell any of their product to vista users?

No. It's a free update, the same as most forum users here expect Ulead's updates to be free. This is a pro application and most users are still using the NT4 and W2k (or Unix) OSs that are still most common in corporate environments. It would be extraordinary if anyone bought the software just because it was Vista-compatible, but it is possible that a few progressive (?) existing users will try it with Vista and it is for these guys that the revised software was written. I haven't tried it myself, but the chief software engineer has benchmarked the autoplacement and autorouting features at an average 8-10% slower than XP. This doesn't seem much until one realises that a complex 20-layer board may take more than 36 hours to autoroute and optimise, with a high-performance machine. As a typical first-seat software price is about ¢G1,200 each, they would have to find some 200 extra clients using Vista to break even. As it is, the investment has to be written off as development overheads.

Note that this is a speciality software with a small number of clients, unlike MSP, so please don't read into this any extrapolation to Ulead products. I have no idea, even as a beta tester, when or even if MSP will be updated for Vista. This is a decision to be made, presumably after tripartite discussions between Ulead, Intervideo and Corel. At this moment, I have no idea what is likely to happen, any more than you. As it is, MSP currently comes with the following as part of the system requirements:

Microsoft® Windows® 2000, XP

, so that if anyone chooses to ignore this, it is at their own risk.

[skier-hughes]

So the company do not expect to sell any of their product to vista users?

No. It's a free update,

So if I came to the company with a vista pc and wanted their product they'd offfer it to me as a freebie?

I expect not, yes it will be offered free to exisiting customers, but any new customer with Vista will have to buy the product.

For this instance they will have had to work on the programme and make it vista compatible.

If Vista lasts for 5 years then they'll have 5 years of selling a product made for Vista, surely?

Progress happens and in the end we have to pay for it.

Here in the UK we are going to be switching off analogue tv, so everyone has to be able to receive digital tv. This is a benefit? Well lots of channels, better quality reception blah di blah, but everyone has to buy something to be able to receive DTV. Currently the programme stream is compressed to fit in the available bandwidth, so the quality is quite poor - they assure is it will get better!!!!

[Thona]

I agree.

On top, I am acasual video editor. I use Media Studio Pro. Now - I look for alternatives. I can not continue using a product that simply has NO PLAN how to go forward.

If they would say "ok, coming within 3 months" or "coming with version 9" - well, that would mean something. But "we don't know" means "look for something else' tool".

Too bad.

[Gorf]

On top, I am acasual video editor. I use Media Studio Pro. Now - I look for alternatives. I can not continue using a product that simply has NO PLAN how to go forward.

It must be a shame for casual editors who must upgrade to Vista. For people who make a living out of video editing, it's easy to have a separate PC running XP and MSP8 - that setup will last for at least another four years. Even in the unlikely event that the hackers and virus writers stick to attacking XP after its support cycle has ended, a video-editing pro won't connect their video PC to the 'net so it's no big deal.

[WesleyS]

Thona,

I agree 100% with you.
ULEAD ignore us, not because of vista; beacause they not issue any info about future of Media Studio Pro. Shame for Ulead, not for Thona Gorf!

WesleyS

[Terry Stetler]

Vista brings some new ways of doing things, like gpu use for video editing, which will make things much faster when apps start to use this function.

FYI GPU-enhanced editing has been available for several years in various plugins and editing products under Win2K and XP, so its not a "VISTA thing".

[kmruler]

I`d like to thank you`ll for your insights into the Vista - XP discussion. I ended up paying $350 to a computer shop to uninstall Vista and install XP Pro.This was because not only MSP7 but several other programs wouldn`t work in Vista, my surveying software company it would be mid -May maybe before they had a patch which was simply unacceptable.I`m not really happy with HP and MS though that appears to be my problem. I would warn anybody against getting Vista till they are sure it works with applications they need to work.It is a pretty O/S but if it doesn`t work with needed software it is useless to me.
Thanks for your time
Kenny