AVI (DV from Camcorder NTSC) to DVD - Audio Sync Problems

RDK45 · Post by **RDK45** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:00 pm

...Would appreciate some help and explaination. I have read parts of this forum for most of today and yesterday about audio sysn problems. Almost all the posts I have found are dealing with original capture files in MPEG2 format, editing that and the resulting problems.

Well, my problem DOES NOT fit in that area!

I capture from my Sony Camcorder to my PC via the FireWire cable via Ulead 8 or 10 directly to DV AVI Type 1 NTSC format files. In many cases the Sony is acting as a analog to digital converter as I may have my VCR connected to the Camcorder.

I edit these files and create a new AVI file. I've tried both Type 1 and Type 2 formats here. Now when I burn a DVD using VS10 from the second AVI (edited version, either AVI type format) the audio will be 1-2 seconds out of sync at the end of about 100 minutes.

With VS8 and Type 2 AVI format file the DVD's will usually turn out OK, but not always!

With VS10 they are always out of sync.

Things I have read but not yet tried:

1. inserting the file into the DV Burning wizard, instead of the time line, but that seems a bit odd since all the work is in AVI format.
2. making the second file MPEG2 instead of AVI

Can someone tell me what the issues are here?

Thanks.....RDK

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:08 pm

RDK,
Video Studio version 8 had chronic audio/video sync problems, which were were never fixed properly. Don't use it. Stick with version 10+.

Are you following the Recommended Procedure (sticky post, above)? Your success depends on (1) getting the video properties right in every stage of the edit process and (2) using the right procedure.

For example, we recently discovered a user who was losing A/V sync when he made a video file but his burn procedure was incorrect - he placed the video file back in the EDIT timeline and did Create Disk from there. When he followed the recommended procedure, by using SHARE/CREATE Disk/ ADD VIDEO, the A/V sync problem disappeared.

The recommended procedure advises capturing in either AVI(DV) Type I or DVD-compliant Mpeg2, neither of which "causes" A/V sync problems. Get the Properties and Procedure right and you will be a happy camper (usually...).

Post by **Ken Berry** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:14 pm

To add to John's excellent advice, it also sounds to me re the recommended procedure, that you are following it to the extent of capturing and editing in DV/AVi, but then are missing the all-important step of first rendering that edited DV/AVI to DVD-compliant mpeg-2. In doing so, you go to Share > Create Video File > NTSC DVD. That way you should have a file which you can then test in a software DVD player to see if there are problems such as lip sync. As it is, you are (or appear to be) asking VS to both convert the edited DV/AVI (a complicated and demanding process in its own right) on the fly AND multiplex it, create menus and actually burn the disc -- a recipe for disaster for many (though it works for some).

I know you said that you did produce an mpeg-2 in one of your experiments, but I am wondering whether you did this by selecting Share > Create Video File and then choosing 'mpeg-2' as the desired format, instead of 'NTSC DVD'. If you did, you need to be aware that the 'mpeg-2' default format is not DVD-compliant. In other words, when you put such an mpeg-2 into the burning module, VS is still going to have to convert it to DVD compliance, and again errors can creep in -- and indeed appear to have done so.

RDK45 · Post by **RDK45** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:33 am

John and Ken....Thanks for the responses. Last night I tried dropping the edited AVI file into the Visual Studio 10+ DVD wizard directly, with the same audio out of sync results. So today I will start over at the capture step.

But first some more background, life is never as simple as one would like: I live a "multi-standard life", by that I mean I have and watch tapes and movies in both NTSC (USA) and French (PAL / SECAM). I have multi-standard VHS and TV units. As I fear that the tapes are going to degrade I wish to convert them to DVD's and to do it in both DVD formats- NTSC and PAL. The first part of my process (and I will do the PAL example as it is more complex), which I alluded to above is a) the multi-standard VCR composite video output (no s-video available) is going to my Sony Camcorder Digital 8 inputs. Then b) from the Sony to my PC (P4 2.8 GHz with 100's GB available and defraged) via a firewire connection. The Sony is an NTSC model so the VCR is configured to output NTSC.

When c) I fire up Visual Studio 10+ and go to the capture page it finds the Sony. When I click on the Options icon I DO NOT see where I can select anything outher than DV Type 1 or Type 2 as format options. Am I missing something?

So right now that PC is capturing 100 minutes of an old movie from a VCR recorded over 10 years ago in France.

For the next steps? After I edit the beginning, end and remove any commercials, I now create a new file in the PAL format and since the VCR audio is on only one channel I would like to specify 'mono' But what file format should I use (historically I have always used DV)? DV? MPEG? And also what settings (other that 25fps and 720x576)? Oh, also, since this film is 90 minutes long I will during the editing process create two second step files each about 45 minues long.

By the way, Ken, I have never created or saved a file from AVI to MPEG, that was on my list of things to try.

And the final set is to take the PAL formatted file just created and drop it in to the Visual Studio DVD wizard, create my menus and then set the options to burn the DVD. Will I need to set any options before I burn the DVD?

Thanks for your help and patience......RDK

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:08 am

Hi

Just a little input from a Pal user.

You are capturing via firewire and selecting DV as the format.
This process transfers the video to the pc and does not re-code.
You have no settings to change with the exception of the Dv-Type.
Select type 1.
The captured files will be Dv-Avi at 13Gb per hour.

So no! you are not missing anything.

Creating a Mpeg from Avi
After editing is complete, Share Create Video File—Select Ntcs-Dvd
Do not select mpeg. (re Kens comments)
This will use the standard template using 8000 bit rate for a one hour video.
The process is called rendering and will take some time.

A 90 minute video will fit to one disc by reducing the Bit Rate of the video file to 6000.
Reducing the rate to 4000 will allow 120 minutes per disc
4000 kbps is seen to be VHS quality.

I find it best to use Tools Make Movie Manager to create the templates.

This is the standard Pal template used by VS 10:-

MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Lower Field First
(DVD-PAL), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 Hz, Stereo

Read my Quick Guide from the link below

Hope this helps

Trevor

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:21 am

Just a little input from someone who converted several hundred VHS tapes to DVD including my own and that of friends and family - so I am talking of 3-400 VHS transfers.

Using exactly the same settings and exactly the same equipment.
The only thing that was different during each capture was the VHS tape cassette in the VHS player.

90-95% of the transfers were completely successful whilst a small number had audio/video synch issues. This was without editing the material.

Conclusion:
The fault lies in the VHS tape itself probably due to the tape being worn, stretched or slightly damaged. I don’t know if VHS tapes contain any form of compression or not.
The tapes would play in synch if simply played directly to a TV set but would end up out of synch when captured to a computer hard drive.

In view of this I worked out a method to re-synch the audio as shown in this post.
VS & MSP: Fix for Out of Synch Audio/Video

RDK45 · Post by **RDK45** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:25 am

Trevor....Thanks, your reply caught me just ready to start the "save File after editing" process. For now I will stick with my 45 minute plan, but follow the rest of your suggestions.

If I select NTSC-DVD as you suggested, then the resulting file will still be in NTSC format, right? Thus the conversion to PAL will happen during the DVD burning process?

Anyway, your suggestions are in route right now....RDK

RDK45 · Post by **RDK45** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:03 am

Steve....Thanks for your input. However, the problem lies somewhere after the Capture Phase, as the original DV/AVI capture file plays perfectly!

Trevor's suggestions are in progress right now.

Thanks again.....RDK

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:22 am

Hi

I know we all refer to Mpeg2, which can be confusing.

When you select Ntsc-DVD it is Mpeg 2 but using a compatible template.
If you choose Mpeg the settings will be for pc/web playback, not the settings you want.

For Pal:-

I would convert the project to Pal -DVD before burning.
You will need to use the ‘custom’ option or the Make Movie Manager to create a Pal Template.
It may be best to create a Pal–Dv (Avi) from the project. Then create a Pal-DVD from that file.

Using the pal file in Share Create Disc Add Video.

You need to avoid rendering anything in the burner module, except the menu structure.

Trevor

Trevor Andrew · Post by **Trevor Andrew** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:26 am

Hi

There are several tutorials on the pal-ntsc conversion.

One here

http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=11847

Worth a read

Trevor

RDK45 · Post by **RDK45** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:21 am

To all who responded to my problem, MANY THANKS!!!!

I'm now fully operational which a process which seems to work consistently with Visual Studio 10+.

Briefly,
Step 1) I capture from my multi-standard VCR, via my SONY camcorder (converts analog to digital), to a NTSC DV/AVI file on my PC.
Step 2) I convert this file to DVD-PAL format (MPEG, etc) as suggested by Trevor.
Step 3) I drop this MPEG file into the DVD wizard and burn the DVD.

Notes: I appears to be very important for Step 3 that the Project Properties be exactly as per the file which will be imported into the DVD wizard. If not it seems to want to re-render the file. This does not appear to be as important for Steps 1 and 2.

Again, MANY THANKS......RDK

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:21 pm

Isn't that what the Recommended Procedures say to do?