What am I doing wrong? HDV to DVD

Moderator: Ken Berry

jimboy

Post by jimboy »

I'm currently using a 17" CRT monitor on both computers. The PC with the ATI 9800 Pro card displays the motion & interlace artifacts and the PC with the ATI All In Wonder 7500 does not when playing pack the same mpeg clip via Windows Media Player. Apparantly the 7500 card is hardware encoding vs. software encoding on the 9800?

My main goal is to output to DVD for myself and others. Currently I have a Toshiba DVD player hooked up to a 27" tv. I sometimes make up to 50 DVD's for other people but I don't know what they play them on. (???)
The HDV to DVD disks look pretty good but not as good as plugging the HDV camcorder directly into a HDTV set. (No artifacts at all) Can't wait for HD-DVD or Blu-ray to be mainstream. Would like to know if this (HD-DVD or Blu-ray) fixes the problems as well.

Right now I'm a little nervous about panning or moving too fast. Wish I could keep the stuff I'm shooting to keep still as well. Maybe I'll break out my digital still camera. :roll:
jchunter

Post by jchunter »

Maybe we need to look more closely at the video display card settings... These cards have complete control of the monitor refresh timing and lot of other complicated aspects of video display.

If you right mouse on the desktop screen and select Properties, is the correct video card selected in the Display control?

When you click the Advanced button, do you get the hyper-complicated ATI control window?

In the Monitor tab, What monitor type is selected?
What is the screen refresh rate?
In the Troubleshooting tab, what is the Hardware Acceleration?

I show a Write Combining box that is checked. Not sure what this does - I have an LCD monitor and these settings should perhaps be different for a CRT monitor.
SmartGart Tab: I have no idea how this should be set up, but AGP = 8x and fast write is ON.

If you compare the settings for the two different video cards, we might learn something... :?
maddrummer3301
Posts: 2507
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:24 pm
Location: US

Post by maddrummer3301 »

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Last edited by maddrummer3301 on Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
jchunter

Post by jchunter »

MD,
Sorry, but I can't give any credence to his statements.
(1) Mpeg2 HDV is not "highly compressed." It is garden variety mpeg2 compression on a larger frame size. The "highly compressed" formats are, Mpeg4, Divx, H.264, Xvid, etc and the difference is enormous.
(2) HDV is a clear and obvious improvement over ANY 720x480 video.
(3) The author thinks that VHS tape frame has more pixels??? Give me a break...

Interlacing is the "beast" that makes the first HD camcorders affordable.
We need to focus on finding the best process to maximize picture quality in spite of the beast.
lespurgeon
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:01 am

Post by lespurgeon »

Shutter rate also appears to be an issue with the Sony 1-chip cameras. Try 1/200th of a second shutter and see if that helps (along with fram-based rendering).
jchunter

Post by jchunter »

Les,
The fast shutter speed hypothesis was suggested in one of the SonyHDVInfo forums. The HC1 shutter was thought to be too fast, therefore, producing a staccato effect when played back. This would only happen in bright light with auto exposure enabled.

However, my initial HC1 panning tests were in the shade on the norh side of my house - hardly overly bright.
Jerry Jones
Posts: 358
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:14 pm
Location: Boise, Idaho, USA
Contact:

Post by Jerry Jones »

Well, HDV's native field order attribute is UPPER FIELD.

The same has been true of all of the MPEG-2 DVD disc camcorders that I've tested.

But -- for the sake of experimentation -- I've tried all of Ulead's field order settings... UPPER, LOWER, FRAME-BASED... and, frankly, none improves the down-converted HDV playback on my display here.

Jim's mention of how his display cards impact the appearance of the video playback is quite interesting; I suspect that's a valid observation.

Perhaps one of Jim's display adapters features some kind of built-in interlace-flicker reduction?

The suggestion to use a faster shutter speed might be worth some experimentation.

Still, HDV artifacting are problems being reported all over the Web on various forums by users of HDV camcorders who are trying to get the best results when they down-convert to standard definition DVD.

See the excellent Sony DCR-TRV900 Web site by John Beale, for example.

John has purchased several camcorders since his original Sony DCR-TRV900 MiniDV camcorder purchase.

His latest camcorder is the Sony HDR-FX1 -- a more expensive model -- and he reports similar issues with that camcorder and he attributes his standard definition DVD problems to the EXTREME RESOLUTION of the HDV format:

http://tinyurl.com/zn7c3

Frankly, I'm not sure if I agree with Beale's suggestions: USING BLUR FILTERS!

The folks at Studio Daily also did some testing with the Sony HDR-FX1.

Same problem:

http://tinyurl.com/h6qwu
Shooting with the Sony HDR-FX1, we noticed that the image quality, although generally very good, becomes a bit noisy (or blurred) when we panned with the camera. Actually, this is quite typical for MPEG-2 compression, even in HD broadcasts, as we noticed in the Summer Olympics broadcasts. With the HDR-FX1, the blur/noise is more visible because it features a less expensive codec. Using an HD-SDI converter, we then hooked up the camera with a portable HDCAM deck (SONY HDW-250). This let us bypass the MPEG-2 codec (with a transfer rate of 25 Mbps) and, instead, record uncompressed HD (with a rate of 140 Mbps). This resulted in a higher image quality with relatively clean pans. Based on our experience, we also recommend minimizing horizontal movement (panning) as much as possible in order to maintain a clean image. If you need to pan (and want to maintain the image quality), always pan as slowly as possible!
PANASONIC's sales representatives are claiming this was one of the reasons they chose not to join with the other camcorder manufacturers in supporting the HDV format.

I wonder if AVCHD H.264 MPEG-4 will be any better?

CamcorderInfo.Com just reviewed the new HDR-UX1 from Sony.

But there really wasn't much written about that codec's ability to handle motion.

http://tinyurl.com/p4xsm

Interesting stuff, however.

Thanks again for sending those discs, Jim.

HDV's resolution is truly amazing.

It appears one needs to shoot very carefully with it to minimize motion.

1) Always use a tripod;

2) Experiment with faster shutter speeds, if possible.

I'll keep my eyes open for any new technical articles on this topic.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net
Gateway 7426gx
http://tinyurl.com/hagye
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