Edited DV not as good as original

[Doverwhite]

Insert any clip to the timeline Share Create Video File—What do you see in the list NTSC or PAL ?

Thanks for your suggestion. I opened VS9 and dragged a single clip to the timeline. Any of my clips I see Project =PAL and Clip =PAL. If however I take a clip from the as supplied library e.g. testcard or 54321 I get Project =PAL and Clip = (apparently NTSC although it does not say so)

[Doverwhite]

When you capture do you select DV as the capture format, and more importantly does the DV remain as DV.

Trevor

I set capture to DV and get .avi files at approx 13GB/hr. Dont forget that if I play the original clip I get excellent as original on TV monitor picture quality.

[Doverwhite]

Dover,
I am sure that the reason you are getting degraded quality is that you are not explicitly setting up the properties when you create your video file of the project: (SHARE/CREATE VIDEO ). You are accepting the default properties, which do not match your captured video file properties.

I have read the suggested material and am managing properties at all stages

I have also tried experiments with short projects with different properties but usually end up with a same or worse result. I do not accept the defaults and as far as I can see the project properties are the same as my imported video properties.

[Doverwhite]

Sounds like your project and clip properties are not jiving. You've never posted both of them. Would be interesting to see.

As I do not understand the instructions given for posting jpeg screen dumps on this forum I cannot post clip properties. But I can assure you that all my clips imported to the timeline and edited have IDENTICAL properties to the project at least as displayed by "properties" in the S/W

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

I think I should have explained a little better.

When you installed VS you have to choose the TV system, either Ntsc or Pal
You are in England and use Pal.
In one of your earlier posts you indicated Ntsc, to clear this point, I asked you to look at the Share-Create Video File option. (Insert any clip to the timeline Share Create Video File—What do you see in the list NTSC or PAL ? )
This shows a list of available templates. If you have installed to Pal all the templates will indicate this.

Project properties

Video studio can change project properties to match the video clip properties.
Go to File Preferences-tick Show messages when inserting first video………..

When inserting the first clip into a new project a pop up window prompts you to change the properties Press details to view the properties then select yes.

Your quality problem is after creating a new video file, correct.
We have seen the properties of the original video.

What are the properties of the poor quality video?

Read My Quick Guide to Dv-Avi from the link below

Trevor

[Doverwhite]

Hi

I think I should have explained a little better.

When you installed VS you have to choose the TV system, either Ntsc or Pal
If you have installed to Pal all the templates will indicate this.

Hi Trevor many thanks once again for your reply, hope your help leads me to a solution of the problem.
Yes they are all PAL except WMV phone format options. My mention of NTSC was because I found that if I insert clips from the ULead supplied library into the middle of my project e.g. the testcard then the clip properties are NTSC. Furthermore I have observed that in the video file created from this test project whilst my footage shows a degradation in quality the test card does not.

Project properties

Video studio can change project properties to match the video clip properties.
Go to File Preferences-tick Show messages when inserting first video………..

When inserting the first clip into a new project a pop up window prompts you to change the properties Press details to view the properties then select yes.

OK Ill try this and report back but what is difference to setting properties as first clip?

Your quality problem is after creating a new video file, correct.
We have seen the properties of the original video.

What are the properties of the poor quality video?

Read My Quick Guide to Dv-Avi from the link below

Trevor

Quality of original clips is excellent but quality of new video file is not as good.

Properties of poor quality file as follows:-

PAL (25 fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 Bits, 720 x 576, 4:3, 25 fps
Lower Field First
DV Video Encoder -- type 1
DV Audio -- PAL, 32.000 kHz, 12 Bit, Stereo

Many thanks for help will read your guide.

[Jerry Jones]

I had a look at your clip properties:

PAL (25 fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 Bits, 720 x 576, 4:3, 25 fps
Lower Field First
DV Video Encoder -- type 1
DV Audio -- PAL, 32.000 kHz, 12 Bit, Stereo

Did you know your camcorder might be able to record audio at a higher quality setting?

I always recommend that camcorder users adjust their camcorders -- if possible -- to record in 48.000kHz, 16 Bit.

Your audio will sound better because 16 bits are far better than 12 bits.

I wish the manufacturers of DV camcorders would STOP using 32.000 kHz, 12 bit as their default setting.

It really screws up a lot of beginners.

Now, back to your problems, you must make sure that your PROJECT SETTINGS in Ulead VideoStudio are adjusted to MATCH your source video/audio properties.

If you do that, then Smart Render will be allowed to function properly and your clip quality will not degrade when you edit.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Doverwhite]

Now, back to your problems, you must make sure that your PROJECT SETTINGS in Ulead VideoStudio are adjusted to MATCH your source video/audio properties.

If you do that, then Smart Render will be allowed to function properly and your clip quality will not degrade when you edit.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

Hi Jerry
Thanks for your comments re sound but I have feeling without looking that my DV camcorder which is an early one only has the one option - but willl checK. Surprisingly sound quality from a camcorder is not a particular issue with me but getting the best video quality results is.

As far as I am aware my Project settings ARE Identical to my source video/audio properties but I am still getting a degradation in picture quality post editing. The only thing I have not had a chance to try yet is the suggestion of Trevor Andrew above of doing this via the first clip pop up message but will try tomorrow and report back.

[Jerry Jones]

As far as I am aware my Project settings ARE Identical to my source video/audio properties but I am still getting a degradation in picture quality post editing. The only thing I have not had a chance to try yet is the suggestion of Trevor Andrew above of doing this via the first clip pop up message but will try tomorrow and report back.

Well, I've been using Ulead software for years.

I've never encountered a situation where the Smart Render doesn't work.

Smart Render is activated when the software user precisely matches project settings to the properties of the primary source media, i.e. DV .avi files.

Make sure that -- in your PREFERENCES menu -- you've selected BEST as your "image resampling option."

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Doverwhite

I have read the posts again and provided the Project Properties are matching the Video File (and I believe they are ) I cannot see anything you are doing wrong.

Two things I would try:-

1 / Disable Smart Render whilst creating the Dv-Avi (some users have reported problems when using this option)

2 / I would suggest that you render your project to Pal-Dvd, the standard template is suitable for up to 60 minutes of video.

If the quality is ok, as it should be, then it may be a Avi codec problem (this is getting a little over my head)

Trevor

[Doverwhite]

Hi Doverwhite

I have read the posts again and provided the Project Properties are matching the Video File (and I believe they are ) I cannot see anything you are doing wrong.

Two things I would try:-

1 / Disable Smart Render whilst creating the Dv-Avi (some users have reported problems when using this option)

2 / I would suggest that you render your project to Pal-Dvd, the standard template is suitable for up to 60 minutes of video.

If the quality is ok, as it should be, then it may be a Avi codec problem (this is getting a little over my head)

Trevor

Hi Trevor and all other posters who have tried to help. Many thanks but...

I tried your two options above but to no avail. I have tried various other permutations/ options* for several hours on various 3-5 minute projects. But always compared with the imported footage the resultant .avi is not as good. I was beginning to think I was going nuts and got monitor blindness so I got my wife who is an accomplished water colour artist to do a "blind"! ?? test of the comparisons and without prompting her first reaction was that she picked out the original as best and said the edited copies in comparison looked fuzzy and the colours were washed out . We then experimented with the hue, saturation, brightness and contrast settings on the player in the hope that at least the colour rendition could be improved but to no avail.

I have also found that if one saves a project whose properties are apparently OK and then close VS9 and then re-open - share - open project- create video file - PAL DV then the properties shown are avi type 2 (type 1 original ) and PCM audio! Interestingly if you then save this gives the best quality picture of all the edited copies but it still isnt as good as the original.......??????????????

I have also found that if one builds a project from the clips in the ULead provided library and then saves this as a video file then even though these clips are NTSC format and I am producing a PAL avi they reproduce perfectly even to my dear wifes opinion. This was as my earlier experience of using the test card clip.

I am convinced that this s/w was written around a NTSC profile and has compromise problems when editing captured PAL footage. Yes I am perhaps more critical of picture problems than most and I am sure that in NTSC land everything is OK but I am surprised that other users in PAL land have not perceived the same problem as I see.

I regret that I am about to give up on this s/w. This is a pity as I like its general approach although it has some quirks. I never got the disc burner to work and always used an external burner. I went to direct .avi capture as I found that editing captured DVD was hopeless. I am told I need Womble for mpeg and Vegas for avi unless anyone can convince me trialling VS10+ will do any better!

* Permuted combinations of same as project/same as first clip/ PALDV/ Custom/smart render on/off/ nonsquare pixel rendering on/off etc.etc.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Doverwhite

I have no problems with quality when working with Dv-avi using the same approach as you.

Although the s/w is based on Ntsc I do not think this has anything to do with your poor quality.

When you capture via firewire to DV, you are transferring the video from your camera to the PC. No additional re-coding takes place. What you have is what you get. (Dv-Avi.)

During capture/transfer there should be no Dropped Frames especially when using Dv-Avi. (Can you check this point—the drop frame counter is lower right in the info panel)

Editing should be no problem.

Then Share---Create Video File----Same as First Clip should produce the same quality video.
Here you are seeing a marked reduction in quality.


At this point I would be considering a clean install of Video Studio.

I am thinking a codec problem, of which I know little about.


Can others on the forum with knowledge of codecs comment please.
All the Best

Trevor

[Doverwhite]

Hi Doverwhite

I have no problems with quality when working with Dv-avi using the same approach as you.

Although the s/w is based on Ntsc I do not think this has anything to do with your poor quality.

When you capture via firewire to DV, you are transferring the video from your camera to the PC. No additional re-coding takes place. What you have is what you get. (Dv-Avi.)

During capture/transfer there should be no Dropped Frames especially when using Dv-Avi. (Can you check this point—the drop frame counter is lower right in the info panel)

Editing should be no problem.

Then Share---Create Video File----Same as First Clip should produce the same quality video.
Here you are seeing a marked reduction in quality.


At this point I would be considering a clean install of Video Studio.

I am thinking a codec problem, of which I know little about.


Can others on the forum with knowledge of codecs comment please.
All the Best

Trevor

Many thanks once again Trevor.
As I have said before I am not sure where codecs come into this as we are not (hopefully) recompressing this video. However I notice that the supplied library clips use a different codec. Also like you I find this area a bit beyond my current understanding.

With regards to dropped frames I cannot see any reference to them - do you mean in the information panel shown during capture under the scene counter? Does it only show if there is a dropped frame?

I have also thought of trying a full de-installation/re-installation. I have often seen references to update patches on this forum particularly in connection with burner problems but I can never seem to find any patches that are relevant either to burner or other likely problems such as this - am I looking in the wrong place?

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

Drop frame counter should be lower right in the information panel.

During capture you can also see the Scene Numbers.

VS 9 updates from here

http://www.ulead.com/tech/vs/vs.htm

for burner look at General Updates

The burner update should not be your problem, you have not got that far yet, but you will.

Trevor

[Doverwhite]

Hi

Drop frame counter should be lower right in the information panel.
The burner update should not be your problem, you have not got that far yet, but you will.

Trevor

Hi Tevor again many thanks for your continued interest.

I see no dropped frame counter, lowest right on info panel is scene counter.

Wrt burner updates - yes I have already been there as part of my even more disappointing experience with editing from Mpeg capture. Basically the burner in my package does not work it either falls over or produces DVD's that wont play properly (jerky motion or freezes and halts). I resorted to saving to VOB at highest possible bit rates and then either burning these if less than 4.7 GB using Roxio or (better) DVDencrypter or shrinking using DVDShrink or (better) DVD Rebuilder. Note : all apart from Roxio is freeware.

Will try your link and report back!