Choppy output (any codec!!!) Bug?

[Gorf]

That's why I said "IF your goal is putting 24fps video on DVD".

I wasn't disagreeing with you - I was replying to heinz, who said DVD must be 25 or 29.97fps.

For the record....NTSC legal DVD;

<snip>
Dolby (preferred), MP2 (secondary preferred), PCM, DTS (not supported by all decks) audio.

I disagree with that, though.
MP2 and DTS aren't NTSC legal. Just because a player might be able to cope with them, doesn't make them part of the DVD spec. There are a handful of players that support DivX, but that's doesn't make them "legal". I concur, though, that they are more "legal" in that they actually reside within the DVD structure, whereas DivX/WMV etc do not. I suppose it's a bit of a moot point, though, as the denizens of this forum are unlikely to be encoding DTS audio for ther discs. Even if they did, there should also be an AC3 track to make the disc "legal"

MP2 isn't "legal" for NTSC, but neither was AC3 for PAL. However, I bought a NTSC disc some time ago, and the only track it had was MP2, so I suspect it's a bit like PAL with AC3 in the early days - not official, but likely to work anyway.

Thanks all for your replies.
The video's will not be used for DVD; they are for playback on computer only.

Enemy Territory has a built-in feature to capture the screenshots; it saves them as TGA files.

I will see if I can load the stills in MSP8 directly.

If I understand correctly I have to set the "project settings" in MSP8 to match the source file if I want to keep the same frame rate?

When working with MSP, it's best to keep the project settings set to match those of the bulk of your source video. This isn't possible for your source, so you might as well keep yours matching the output video. If you're planning on outputting to the web, I'd consider using one of the WMV presets. If you set the project to 24fps at 640x480, it sounds like you can work on the files without any framerate conversion.

Do what Terry said with the UIS files, though. Don't bring the images in en masse for one frame each. It makes editing difficult even for straight cuts unless you output to an intermediate video file first. If that video file is anything other than uncompressed (or some other lossless codec) you'll lose quality.

@ Terry - thanks for the description about automatically creating the UIS file. I just checked, and it's been available since at least version 6. You wouldn't believe the amount of arsing about I've gone to to make these files manually. I learn something new every day! It will make editing animations so much easier.

@ theMajor - if you have the space to work with an additional copy of your video, render to an uncompressed file matching your TGA specs and output framerate first. Why? Because you can add the audio and when you edit, you do everything once, instead of having to duplicate all your video edits on your audio clip.

[TheMajor]

@ theMajor - if you have the space to work with an additional copy of your video, render to an uncompressed file matching your TGA specs and output framerate first. Why? Because you can add the audio and when you edit, you do everything once, instead of having to duplicate all your video edits on your audio clip.

Yes, I have the space. I will do that, because MSP8 is slow as hell when working with imported stills. Working with a raw file is much better.

I'll let you know if I am still expriencing problems...

[TheMajor]

I think I'm still having the same problem. Can you please tell me if the virtualdub video plays smoother on your system as well?

Imported stills in MSP8 (30fps non-drop frame NTSC project), compressed to DivX using MSP8:
http://themajor.no-ip.org/testdivx.avi

Imported stills in VD (30fps selected), compressed to DivX using VD:
http://themajor.no-ip.org/testdivxvirtualdub.avi

[Gorf]

Downloading the clips now.

In the meantime, I should point out that using uncompressed video is unlikely to result in any speed improvement. What you gain in not having to decode each frame, you lose in having to transfer more data to/from the hard drive.

Let us know how you get on, though - I could be quite wrong.

[Terry Stetler]

For the record....NTSC legal DVD;

<snip>
Dolby (preferred), MP2 (secondary preferred), PCM, DTS (not supported by all decks) audio.

I disagree with that, though.

MP2 and DTS aren't NTSC legal. Just because a player might be able to cope with them, doesn't make them part of the DVD spec.

Wrong as to MP2. Read this spec on MPEG.org;

http://www.mpeg.org/MPEG/DVD/Book_B/Audio.html

It clearly states that AC-3 (Dolby), MP2 (technically MPEG-2, Layer 2) and LPCM are DVD legal. MP2 may not be preferred, but it is an acceptable secondary option, just as Dolby is in PAL.

DTS isn't specifically legal, though it's inclusion is pretty much an accepted practice as an extra feature for those with DTS capable decks.

[Gorf]

Wrong as to MP2. Read this spec on MPEG.org;

http://www.mpeg.org/MPEG/DVD/Book_B/Audio.html

It clearly states that AC-3 (Dolby), MP2 (technically MPEG-2, Layer 2) and LPCM are DVD legal. MP2 may not be preferred, but it is an acceptable secondary option, just as Dolby is in PAL.

That page is out of date - as of 1998, AC3 is no longer an "option" on PAL players. they must all support it. (The decision itself was made on 5 December 1997.)

From Jim Taylor's "DVD Demystified" page:
"All PAL DVD players can play Dolby Digital audio tracks, but not all NTSC players can play MPEG audio tracks."

That book is about as close as anyone can get to the official DVD forum specifications without spending $thousands for the licence.

Happy to carry on this discussion via PM or a new thread, but as TheMajor has already pointed out he's not using DVD, I don't think a continued discussion in this thread will help much.

[TheMajor]

Downloading the clips now.

In the meantime, I should point out that using uncompressed video is unlikely to result in any speed improvement. What you gain in not having to decode each frame, you lose in having to transfer more data to/from the hard drive.

Let us know how you get on, though - I could be quite wrong.

Using an uncompressed clip in MSP8 is much faster than using imported stills. What I mean buy this is that actions like cutting, instant playback, inserting text or transitions take much longer when using stills. Almost freezes up my computer.

[Gorf]

I'm surprised. The only thing I can think of is that you have filmstrip or thumbnail mode turned on, but otherwise if the "uncompressed" file has the same dimensions and frame rate as the image sequence, it should be about the same.

You are using an image sequence file as per Terry's instructions, aren't you? It's not the same as having a load of images on the timeline for one frame each...

[TheMajor]

Yes, used Ulead Image Sequence.

I experimented more; I imported the stills in VirtualDUB because it is faster than MSP8 when cutting/pasting. I saved it as an uncompressed file. Edited in MSP8 and saved as DivX using MSP8.

Result: http://themajor.no-ip.org/Marrakech-InsaneQuality.avi

Looks nice and smooth as far as I can tell.

And I think I found the cause of the choppyness. I think it has something to do with the H.263 and H.263 Optimized setting in DivX. I think the Optimized one is the choppy one.
Also, this time I enabled Global Motion Compensation. Maybe that is why it is smoother now.

I'm still not entirely sure about the cause, but at least I managed to make a smooth video.

Thanks all for trying to help me out :p