Don't want to do it...but...going to another NLE

tavideos
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:57 pm

Don't want to do it...but...going to another NLE

Post by tavideos »

I have tried hard to continue to use MSP8 but it's got to the point where I have to make a decision. Continue to use MSP8 with it crashing several times during a project losing all the very hard work from the last save or find another NLE. :cry:

I don't want to move away from MSP8 because I it does everything I need and with ease. I would even buy a new editing system if I thought it would help with the crashes. I feel I have an editing system that should do the job (check profile)

I'm sure some of you might remeber my many questions regarding the crashes and reinstalls. I have followed every bit of help I could put together to try and solve the constant crashes.

I thought I had everything going smooth after the last wipe clean and reinstall of XP2 (@ per devil). I did a complete wedding, 6 hours of footage without a single crash (that's never happened before). The next wedding, using same editing format, I started having crashes after inserting sound files (converted to wav. from mp3) and when using transitions (fade to black). I haven't had the file reading error, but get the MSP8 must close and sometimes it will just turn off like you hit close, except no chance to save.

Can anyone recommend any of the other NLE's that might compare to MSP8 in it's workflow?

Thanks
Tim
heinz-oz

Post by heinz-oz »

If you have your PC just close on you and restart, that is a Windows/hardware issue. I had that recently also and found my memory to be faulty.

If you truly believe that MSP is capable of restarting your OS, then you should definitely try another program. I would thoroughly check my disks and memory first though.

And no, I can't offer any advise on other NLE's, I don't even use MSP8 yet because I has nothing I want to do and MSP7.3 can't do.

Good luck in your future endeavours.
tavideos
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:57 pm

Post by tavideos »

I must have stated what it's doing wrong. Windows doesn't close just MSP.

And thanks, it's not a good time to be learnig a new NLE.
Devil
Posts: 3032
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:06 am
Location: Cyprus

Re: Don't want to do it...but...going to another NLE

Post by Devil »

tavideos wrote:I have tried hard to continue to use MSP8 but it's got to the point where I have to make a decision. Continue to use MSP8 with it crashing several times during a project losing all the very hard work from the last save or find another NLE. :cry:

I don't want to move away from MSP8 because I it does everything I need and with ease. I would even buy a new editing system if I thought it would help with the crashes. I feel I have an editing system that should do the job (check profile)

I'm sure some of you might remeber my many questions regarding the crashes and reinstalls. I have followed every bit of help I could put together to try and solve the constant crashes.

I thought I had everything going smooth after the last wipe clean and reinstall of XP2 (@ per devil). I did a complete wedding, 6 hours of footage without a single crash (that's never happened before). The next wedding, using same editing format, I started having crashes after inserting sound files (converted to wav. from mp3) and when using transitions (fade to black). I haven't had the file reading error, but get the MSP8 must close and sometimes it will just turn off like you hit close, except no chance to save.

Can anyone recommend any of the other NLE's that might compare to MSP8 in it's workflow?

Thanks
Tim
If your system is unstable, it's a hardware/operating system problem. There is no way anyone here can tell you why or what. There is every chance that if you have that with MSP, you will have the same with other NLEs. With the possible exception of WMM, they all require a tip-top system. If you look at forums for Vegas, Avid, Premiere Pro or any others, you will see loads of "why does my system crash?" and "I want to find a more stable NLE" posts. The truth of the matter is that video work really stretches systems (which were originally designed to run WordPerfect under DOS) to the utter limit and if everything is not 100% tuned perfectly, it will cause problems.

Just to illustrate this, I had an exchange, about two years ago, with someone using MSP (I think 7.1) and he was complaining that it kept closing down back to desktop. If he restarted, it would work for 10 minutes and close down again. After many tries, I asked him to do a repair install of Windows. He did this and everything worked fine again. About a week later, he e-mailed me it had restarted closing down. This puzzled me. In the end, I found out the problem, but only after 20 or more e-mails in each direction. He kept the computer on 24/7. Every time he rebooted it worked fine for a time. One of his other applications had a memory leak and, little by little, it did not release all the memory it was using each time he closed it down, so that after a few days there simply was insufficient RAM available for MSP. I suggested he systematically rebooted before using MSP and I've heard nothing since (in fact, he installed dual booting with one reserved for video work, so he HAD to reboot!)
[b][i][color=red]Devil[/color][/i][/b]

[size=84]P4 Core 2 Duo 2.6 GHz/Elite NVidia NF650iSLIT-A/2 Gb dual channel FSB 1333 MHz/Gainward NVidia 7300/2 x 80 Gb, 1 x 300 Gb, 1 x 200 Gb/DVCAM DRV-1000P drive/ Pan NV-DX1&-DX100/MSP8/WS2/PI11/C3D etc.[/size]
tavideos
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:57 pm

Post by tavideos »

Thanks Devil, I understand what your saying, it makes sense. I just don't know what else to do. I have tried everything on this board to try and solve this. Three of the main things is: 1 clean install of XP and reinstall MSP8 with updates last, 2 close anything not needed on the system, 3 capture to E drive mpeg video to D drive DVD to F drive.
Gra
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:38 pm
Location: London

Post by Gra »

Hi

I have the same problem with spontaneous shut down of programmes occasionally - mainly Internet Explorer, but it has happened with a couple of other programmes and in its worst case can make the PC spontaneously re-boot.

According to MS it seems to be a software/ hardware driver conflict issue but I've not had the time to really get to grips with the problem yet (I need to consult with my friend who's a bit of a techie), although I'm getting quite suspicious that Norton System Works or Internet Security could be the culprit!

So I imagine, as suggested in some of the other replies, that it could be something along those lines that is causing MSP to spontaneously close and needs to be remedied, rather than MSP itself. Funnily enough, looking at some of the problems posted, MSP seems quite stable on my PC compared with others and fortunately the spontaneous shut down has only happened once or twice over the last year or so with MSP. Regardless of this I always follow the advice of 'save regularly', however stable a system appears to be.
Thanks & regards.
Gra

MSP8 (SP1), VS8, C3DPS, MF6+, DAZ Studio, Poser 6, Nero 6, Audacity, Photoshop 7.0
You can see a couple of my movies at [url]http://www.youtube.com/glaustin[/url]
tv_news_guy

Shut down what aint necessary

Post by tv_news_guy »

tavideos

I've been reading this thread since the beginning. Damn man, I'm sorry to hear you are still having that spontaneous close problem. I went through that with my last intel p4 3.0 gig/Asus mboard machine. I finally took everything possible off the machine and shut off all the unneeded background crap that I could. It helped and made the machine reliable (enough) to finish projects so long as I saved often.

That said. I am using a new machine now. Dual core amt/Asus mboard.. and over the roughly 20 projects I have done so far it has only closed out maybe twice. I still do save often by habit. So I agree with all the wiser heads here. It is a hardware issue. The only thing I wanted to add to their suggestions is to shut off all the windows processes that arent needed for editing.

I am no pc guru... but I found "Major Geeks" really helped. If you want.. go to http://majorgeeks.com/page.php?id=12 and take a look. I found about twenty processes I could shut off and lower the overhead on my new machine.

Hope this helps.

Bill tv_news_guy
Non-linear editing is half art/half brain damage
tavideos
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:57 pm

Post by tavideos »

One thing I did think of, the preview of the timeline has been jerky the last few days. After the reinstall, it was very smooth. Could this be related to the crashes?
tv_news_guy

re jerky video..

Post by tv_news_guy »

tavideos

Usually when I see jerkey videos it means the pc is having a hard time processing the stream in real time. This happens at work (avid adreneline) and in my own suite, (liquid and Ulead).

Sometimes its simply too many applied motions, effects and filters for the machine to crunch the data and process the stream smooth.

Sometimes its a bottleneck.. like too many programs open eating up ram and not leaving sufficient space for instant rendering.

Two other possibilities. 1: Slow processor.. not actually powerfull enough to think that quick and 2: Video drives that are too slow or need defragmenting. A badly fragmented drive will really hit you hard especially on slower systems or heavy processing type edits. Real time is only real time un til you ask the computer to do more at one time than it can handle.. then the frame rate drops.

Hope this helps

Bill tv_news_guy
Non Linear editing is half art/half brain damage
rs02931

Post by rs02931 »

Devil or anyone???????

"This puzzled me. In the end, I found out the problem, but only after 20 or more e-mails in each direction. He kept the computer on 24/7. Every time he rebooted it worked fine for a time. One of his other applications had a memory leak and, little by little, it did not release all the memory it was using each time he closed it down, so that after a few days there simply was insufficient RAM"

IS THERE A WAY TO TEST TO SEE IF ANY APPLICATIONS ARE LEAKING MEMORY?????? I think I may be having this happen. I find that rebooting pc seems to make MSP8.1 run faster and more stable.
THoff

Post by THoff »

Open up Task Manager and go to the Processes tab -- there you'll see a list of all the processes and the amount of memory they are taking up.
tavideos
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:57 pm

Re: re jerky video..

Post by tavideos »

[quote="tv_news_guy"]tavideos

Usually when I see jerkey videos it means the pc is having a hard time processing the stream in real time. This happens at work (avid adreneline) and in my own suite, (liquid and Ulead).

I don't understand why everything went so good after the reinstall. I edited 8 hours of footage without a single problem and smooth real time play back. If it was my pc, why would MSP peform this well?
Devil
Posts: 3032
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:06 am
Location: Cyprus

Re: re jerky video..

Post by Devil »

tavideos wrote:
tv_news_guy wrote:tavideos

Usually when I see jerkey videos it means the pc is having a hard time processing the stream in real time. This happens at work (avid adreneline) and in my own suite, (liquid and Ulead).

I don't understand why everything went so good after the reinstall. I edited 8 hours of footage without a single problem and smooth real time play back. If it was my pc, why would MSP peform this well?
There could be any number of reasons, such as memory leaks, malware, viruses, faulty hardware (e.g., memory: a faulty sector not being reached first time). Somebody mentioned Norton "protection": this a a MAJOR cause of problems. NEVER have Norton stuff running on video computers (especially their 2006 vintage). I wrote the following article for a techie journal recently:
Regular readers will know that I have promoted Norton anti-virus as being a good protection against many kinds of malicious software which can come our way either by browsing the Internet or through e-mail. The version I used was incorporated in Norton System Works 2002, which I bought about two and a half years ago. This particular version has a number of other very useful utilities and I was very satisfied with the results.

Unfortunately, for reasons totally unconnected with the subject matter of this column, I had to re-install Windows XP Pro. When it came to re-install NSW, the installation application informed me that the version was no longer supported, after less than three years, even though I had paid for a year’s updates, only 3½ months previously. This annoyed me, but I bit the bullet. I hunted around on the Symantec website and found NSW 2006, which was available as an upgrade. After a very long download, I installed the version and started to set it up. I was appalled to find that it had practically taken over my computer but, above all, it refused to allow the anti-virus updates to be downloaded. I spent nearly two days going through the Symantec website for help and tried several different methods of resolving the problem, to no avail. As the manufacturer offered no e-mail support, I sent a fax to the nearest offices, in Ireland. I received neither acknowledgement nor answer. At a cost, I tried to phone them, again in Ireland. A voice-mail message informed me that no technical support was offered by telephone but that I could consult their knowledge base on the Internet, as if I had not been doing that for the previous two days! In the meantime, I found that NSW was more than tripling the boot-up time of the computer, which is an indication of how much it had taken over the system. Apart from that, their installation software could not even configure the Norton-protected Recycle Bin correctly, causing an error message on each boot-up.

As an aside, a neighbour, who also had NSW 2002 installed, suffered a similar fate (including 10 months of unexpired updates) except that she followed Norton’s recommendations by upgrading to a package of their Anti-virus 2006 and Internet Security 2006. She asked me whether I could sort out her computer after installing them, as it had become sluggish. On investigation, I found she had three firewalls and three anti-malware utilities operating. I uninstalled the Internet Security and switched off the Windows XP Firewall, leaving her ZoneAlarm firewall operational. The Anti-virus was still sluggish, but the computer behaved more normally.

Fed up with this state of affairs, I decided to cut my losses and abandon Norton products altogether; my policy became “Naught-on” my computer! To give Symantec their due, they refunded what I paid for NSW 2006, very promptly (I even made about three cents profit, because of differences in exchange rates!).

This left me with two problems: I urgently needed a new anti-virus and a new defragmentation tool, the other functions of NSW being less important. My first task was to find a suitable anti-virus and, after some research, I opted for the Grisoft AVG Pro package. In comparison, this installed and automatically updated like a dream. It operated transparently with almost no overheads and the updating is very regular. The only change I did to the default installation was a weekly, instead of daily, complete system scan. For the “defragger”, I chose Diskeeper. It, too, had a default configuration of daily defragmentation of all the partitions, which I changed to manual, because several of my partitions rarely change and this would cause unnecessary drive wear. It is remarkably more effective than the utility supplied with Windows, which I think is actually a very old Intel software.

What about the bottom line? Well, this is very positive, because the AVG and Diskeeper utilities, together, cost about half of what I didn’t pay for NSW 2006. Of course, there are features in NSW that I no longer have, but there are substitutes either within Windows XP Pro or available on-line for nothing.

While on the subject of invasive software for Internet protection, Zone Labs have been telling me for some months that, initially, version 6.0 of their ZoneAlarm Pro firewall, and then 6.1, was available. I succumbed to the temptation of 6.1 recently, to my instant regret. With it installed and set up by default, it seemed that I could hardly breathe before it shouted a warning that I was laying myself open to all sorts of dire consequences. Every software I installed or even uninstalled constituted a hazard. This was mostly because it has over-zealously assumed that it was prone to malware. The crux is that I have a very good, non-intrusive, anti-malware program, Pest Patrol, and I don’t need a second one, least of all one that cries wolf without being able to stop it. Ergo, I have reverted to version 5.5, which does not have this intrusion. In a few months, Zone Labs will be asking for me to renew my update subscription and, guess what, I won’t pay! I’ll continue to use their freeware firewall, which is all I need.

The important feature that can make or break a software house is support. Before Norton was taken over by Symantec, the support was excellent, an e-mail question being answered within a working day. Today, I can qualify it only as execrable; in fact, it is probably the worst that I have come across recently. If you have a problem that is not dealt with in their Internet knowledge base, then you will have to whistle for your answer. They don’t even run a forum, that I could find. So, how do I find the new contenders? I did have a question, while still on the trial version, for Diskeeper and I sent them an e-mail. Helpful and complete answer received about 8 hours later. This is how it should be. I have not had occasion to contact Grisoft, but they do have a Tech Support message form on their web site, so I assume their service is probably reasonable.

The point I’m trying to make is that it would be far better if all these software authoring houses stuck to their speciality and developed it to the maximum, instead of trying to be all things to all men. Adding a few bells and whistles of unrelated products to their core business does not justify extra cost, especially when many other companies have offered better solutions for many years. And if they don’t offer adequate support, then they may as well place their key under the doormat straight away. At the time of writing, Symantec share prices have dropped 21% over the past year, bucking the trend of the Nasdaq index at up about 10% in the same period. Could this be because they are losing market share to companies like Grisoft, which has been enjoying very good press reviews of late? This company, of Czech origin, does not appear to be quoted on the usual stock exchanges, so I can’t see how its value has progressed in comparison with any of the indices, but I have found that Intel bought a majority share in it, last year.
[b][i][color=red]Devil[/color][/i][/b]

[size=84]P4 Core 2 Duo 2.6 GHz/Elite NVidia NF650iSLIT-A/2 Gb dual channel FSB 1333 MHz/Gainward NVidia 7300/2 x 80 Gb, 1 x 300 Gb, 1 x 200 Gb/DVCAM DRV-1000P drive/ Pan NV-DX1&-DX100/MSP8/WS2/PI11/C3D etc.[/size]
Terry Stetler
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:34 pm
Location: Westland, Michigan USA

Post by Terry Stetler »

Which is why I've long encouraged dualboot systems for editing; one bootup for editing only and one for everything else. The editing bootup is minimal; no toys, no email, no nothing but video/graphics etc. software & optimized for same.
Terry Stetler
Alptonay
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 5:39 pm

Post by Alptonay »

Dear tavideos;
Terry is on the right way to do the job. once you may try that way. Also, would you please tell me the other programs installed on your OS? This is very important. For example; if you have Photoshop CS or CS2 and if you don't have the right scratch disk values, this makes MSP8 crash. This means you have to do memory usage and virtual memory settings. If you tell us about the other programs that are installed, I may help about this problem. I know it because I had a problem as similar as like this. These values are very important...
always cinema...
www.sinamasal.com
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