Editing HDV it's really slow

Schoen · Post by **Schoen** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:55 pm

Dear Friends,
I'm new on the forum as well as HDV. I bought a HDR-FX1 a few days ago.
No problems in capture but in editing.
When I saw the clip no problem at all but in project playback image seems like a "strobe effects". I bought 1 more GB of RAM so I have now 2 GB RAM and the image improve a bit but it's still "strobe effect".
I try also to create a proxy file (smart proxy) but it takes really lot of time and wont work because the system crash when the proxy file is arround the 3,6 GB (HDV image file = 10,5GB).
Can someone help me to know how can I edit and make transitions, overlays, effects, etc with HDV files ? should I buy 1 more GB RAM ?
My PC is a Pentium 4 3.00Ghz, 2 GB RAM, ATI Radeon x700 400 hz 16x pci ex, 2x 120 GB HD. According to this configuration I shouldn't have any problems, but .......
Thks & Rgds

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:21 pm

Walter,
Welcome to the forum!
Your computer is certainly fast enough to edit HDV directly. You don't need any more memory. IMO, proxy editing would just complicate an otherwise simple, direct process, increasing your chances of making a cockpit error.

If editing seems slow, you probably have your properties set inappropriately for HDV. Read the HD Tutorial at http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=13872

Managing video properties throughout the entire workflow is essential for great quality results.

The strobing effect may be caused by improper Field Order setting. My Sony HC1 encodes the video file with Upper Field First, which, counterintuitively, is dead opposite of what DV camcorders encode.

EDIT: Here is a link to the FX1 user forum http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/forumdisplay ... une=-1&f=2
This forum indicates that the FX1 Field Order property is the same as the HC1 - Upper Field First.

Schoen · Post by **Schoen** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:45 pm

Dear Friend,

Thanks for your reply.

I made all the changes you mentioned in preferences, and the video is still playing like strobe effect. If I drop a transition image like 3D box, image is getting worse, the more effect I drop, the more slow the image is.
What annoys me most, is that even if I don't drop any effect, the video is still slow, like "strobe effect".
If I saw the video just in clip mode, no problem at all, but same video in project mode the problem appear. I'm working with a video arround 1 hr (10,5 Gb), should I split into differents files ?

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:02 am

Walter,
If the video has been captured with the wrong Field Order, you will have to recapture to set things right. You can't just set the Preference: Default Field Order after the fact or set the Project Properties to Upper Field First.

If your properties are OK, the next thing to look as is your playback software - I assume that you are playing back on your PC. Video Studio makes a poor HD playback device. Most software has a hard time with HD playback. Media Player Classic works the best for me on a 3GHz CPU. Try that (download link in the Tutorial). It is also possible that your 1.8 GHZ CPU is having problems keeping up with HD playback...

I would limit HD projects to 15 - 20 minutes just because of the time involved in trying different experiments to see what the problem is. Note that 60 minutes of HDV will be about 13 GB.

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:13 am

Jc, where did you get confused?

It is also possible that your 1.8 GHZ CPU is having problems keeping up with HD playback...

His CPU is a P4 and runs at 3.0 GHz. That should be ample I think. As far as I'm concerned, you are right in your assumption that he has captured with the wrong field order and needs to recapture the clip.

Schoen · Post by **Schoen** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:04 pm

Thanks John,

I've recaptured the clip with the right settings you mentioned, but the video is still slow.
You talk about another playback program, but I don't have problem in playback when the project was already rendered, the problem is when I edit in V10+, and as I said before, when I see the clip mode no problem at all but in project mode the image is still slow (Clip & project mode are left side of the play button below the screen where you see the movie).
Anyway, I can deal with "strobe" image.

On the other hand, what worrie me most, is how to watch the HDV on my HDTV. I follow all the steps you mentioned to burn into a DVD disc just like a data DVD. The original file was arround 1.5GB AVI 6 minutes, and the file compressed 1,3GB MPEG .
I tried to play de disc into a XBOX 360 but the file was not recognized.
Should I add other files into the disc in order to make the player recognize like a movie ? I also stored the file in a pendrive but the XBOX 360 didn't recognize.
In fact, in the Ulead Video Studio features, I've read "create WMV-HD and MPEG-2 HD to play on new high definition playback devices such as the XBOX 360"
I also tried to record back into the HDV Camera, but was not possible.

Can someone help me to see HDV on the HDTV.

Thanks for your support.

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:05 pm

Walter,
I think I understand your playback problem, now. Video Studio 10+ plays back high definition poorly in EDIT mode It seems to play at some reduced frame rate, which does give it a strobe effect. I think it regularly drops frames in the display when it gets behind.

Sorry about downgrading your CPU to 1.8 GHz. Your CPU is the same speed as mine. Are you sure that Hyperthreading is enabled (in the BIOS) ? My computer arrived with it turned off...

Now, the file that you burned to DVD as a data file - was that Mpeg2 HDV or Divx? I don't understand the "1.5GB AVI .. compressed 1.3GB Mpeg" statement. Please explain your procedure.

In any case, your first test should be to see if the DVD will play from the computer's DVD player with Windows Media Classic.

I do not have an XBox 360 but I understand that some other users have figured out how to make it work. Here is a link to a thread on using the Xbox as a playback device. http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/showthread.php?t=2465

Schoen · Post by **Schoen** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:12 pm

Hi John,
First of all I want to say thanks for all your support, it seems that I'm talking with a genius that know everything !!!!

Well I check the BIOS and the hyperthreading is enabled, in fact I made other changes you mentioned in other posts "DMA is enabled in Control PanelSystemHardwareDevice Manager on each hard drive separately - in PropertiesPolicies, check Optimize for Performance and uncheck Enable Write Caching (safer)"
But Image is still with reduced frame rate in EDIT mode.

The file that I burned is an .mpg, file format: Mpeg2. Is it right _ or should be Divx ? Don't take into account the AVI file, it was just a confussion
[img]

the file burned plays well on the computer's DVD player with Windows Media Player.

Thks
[/img]

Schoen · Post by **Schoen** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:06 pm

John,

I played the burned disc into my notebook with Media player Clasic and it plays well.

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:17 am

Walter,
Great! I think you have successfully created an edited, high definition video file, which, if you preserved the original encoding, should have the properties: Mpeg2 1440x1080, interlaced, Upper Field First, video datarate: 25Mbps.

Now, to display it on your HDTV, you are going to have to figure out the magic to get the Xbox360 to play it. These forums should provide lots of information: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=11

I play my HD files on an IOData AVLP2 DVD player, which has an internal CPU that can read and decode Mpeg2 HDV, Divx HD, Xvid HD, WMV, etc. and drive an HDTV through component video cables.

Expensive alternatives are the Sony Blu-Ray or Toshiba HD-DVD players.

Schoen · Post by **Schoen** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:04 am

John,

Let me know something, I also played the original file as it was captured from the camera (Mpeg2) in the Media Player Clasic and it plays ok as well, so why are we doing all this encode process ? 6 minutes of video are 1.3 Gb, is it normal ? Where are you burning 50 minutes of video ? are you using DVD9 discs?

PS: The burned file plays still a little bit slow "reduced frame rate" in media player clasic, and the original captured file plays well. Is it normal ?
Am I still doing something wrong?

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:32 am

Well, the "encode process" is really all about creating the opportunity to edit the video: cutting out the bad stuff (too dark, too shaky, out of focus, etc.), adding titles, adding voiceover with a microphone, to explain to the audience what they are seeing, adding music, inserting still images, and so on. After this edit process, everything is "compiled" together in a single video file.

Edit: But if you just want to playback unedited video, you can do so without any encoding at all. Just capture the video (its an .mpg file) and play it back with MPC.

HDV will require about 13 GB for every hour of video, so 6 minutes would be 1/10th of that or 1.3 GB. I don't know what DVD9 disks are - I use mostly Memorex either DVD+RW or DVD+R. You should be able to fit a 20 minute project on one DVD (4.3 GB).

MPC plays at 30 fps on my system. Have you defragged your hard drives lately and shut down all/most of the other programs that usually start up at boot time?

One other thing: high def sometimes seems a bit jerky when doing a slow horizontal pan, which seems to be due to motion artefacts that are caused by the interlaced capture format. I have been deinterlacing my output files and moving objects seem smoother to me.

Also, HD is less forgiving of an unsteady camcorder. You can make your audience seasick... I have started using a fluid head tripod more and more to steady the camera during slow pans and zooms.

Schoen · Post by **Schoen** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:41 am

John,

Of course I want to edit the video, but If you just creat a file "same as project settings" you will obtain also a mpg file 1440x1080 same as the original file but edited. What is the difference to a mpg encoded with all the process you mentioned? is just to see it in the DVD player?
Thks

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:07 pm

Walter,
When Video Studio Creates a Video File, it integrates every object that you have inserted in the timeline into the video and/or audio bit stream in proper time sequence.

For example, if you cut the captured video stream, using the Scissors control, insert a still image with a duration of 3 seconds, and then place a Title over the image at the same time position, then Video Studio will encode 90 (@30 fps) new complete video frames, each one measuring 1440x1080 pixels (controlled by your Frame property setting), that display the still image, together with the Title. These new frames will then be compressed and inserted, in proper time sequence, into the captured video stream.

So. the video and audio Property settings control the precise nature of how the altered video/audio is encoded and integrated. It is essential to encode the new stuff with the the same property values as the original captured video to get smooth, high quality playback.

When you burn the video file on a DVD as a data file, the DVD just serves as a convenient, portable storage medium.

Schoen · Post by **Schoen** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:20 pm

Thanks John,

DVD 9 are double side discs, they can storage up to 9Gb instead of 4,7 Gb of the normal discs. Have you already used 9Gb discs capacity ?
Rgds