I'm still confused on burning at HQ vs SP, etc with VS9.

[ghoofie]

Banging my head on the proverbial wall here.
So no matter how long my project is, when I look at project setting it shows 6000 kbs. I look at project templates and HQ is 'around' 60 minutes for a 4.7 DVD. So if I select that, it the kbs setting changes to 7000. So where does the original 6000 kbs come from ? Calculated by the program maybe ?

So I made a quick little LONG project just to see what the settings would look like. I made the project for 2 1/2 hours worth of video. The burn setting STILL shows 6000 kbs. And I can select HQ for 7000.

I burned a real project tonight that was 1 hour 38 minutes. It burned at the default 6000. (I guess). I expected, before starting the burn, for the program to tell me that the project is too long to burn at 6000. But it didn't. So I expected the burn to cut off the project short. But it didn't do that either. It's all there.

I have tried looking through the downloaded manual (not much here) but it doesn't answer it for me. Maybe someone here can explain it ?

[Ken Berry]

I suspect your problem is that you are thinking of things the wrong way round. The length of video you can fit on a disc is dependent on the bitrate, and not really the other way around. But the quality is also dependent on the bitrate, though in an inverse way.

If you have a project, as you did, of 1 hour 38 minutes, then to fit that on a single layer 4.7 GB DVD, then you would need a bitrate a little lower than 6000 kbps if you were using LPCM audio, but you would (as you did) probably fit it on one disc if you used either Dolby audio or mpeg layer 2 audio. This would give you good quality, though not the highest quality.

The HQ setting will use a bitrate of either 7000 or 8000 kbps. But, you can only fit around an hour of video onto a single layer disc if you use 8000 kbps and LPCM audio, or a bit more if you use Dolby or mpeg audio.

Conversely, if you have a really long project, say of 2 hours or more, then you would have to use a bitrate of 4000 kbps. The quality would be reasonable. But if you lower the bitrate much below this, you will be able to fit correspondingly more onto a DVD, though the quality would become conversely worse.

To sum up, the higher the quality you want, then the higher you set the bitrate but the less you can fit on a disc. But if you want to fit more on a disc, then you have to live with a lower bitrate and a correspondingly lower quality DVD.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

I agree with Kens comments but just to add a little more.

You mention HQ settings in using these I assume you are rendering your video file in the burner stage.
This should not be necessary and avoided where possible, your project can be rendered to the correct bit rate before using the burner module.

As a guide
A bit rate of 8000kbps for up to 60 minutes
A bit rate of 6000kbps for up to 90 minutes
A bit rate of 4000kbps for up to 120 minutes

So for a 2 ½ hour 150 minute video you would need a bit-rate of about 3000kbps.

There are bit-rate calculators you can use to help select the correct rate.
http://dvd-hq.info/Calculator.html

Once you have completed the editing your project is rendered to mpeg 2 using the correct properties.
Share Create Video File.
Either use the custom option or create your own template (recommended) using Tools make Movie Manager .
The burner operation should take about 30 minutes 15 to make the menus and 15 to burn.

From the link below read:-

A Quick Guide for Mpeg
Bit Rates and File Sizes
Make Movie Manager.

Hope this Helps

Trevor

[daniel]

The burner operation should take about 30 minutes 15 to make the menus and 15 to burn.

Your mileage WILL vary WILDLY, according to project (menus) complexity, processor type and memory and disk speed...
Or so I think anyway

Sorry, the bait was too large to resist...

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Daniel

I was not fishing.
Looks like I caught a big one though.!

How long does it take YOU to burn a disc? (please reply)

A far as I am concerned, that is the speed of your burner.
I burn my discs at 4X the slowest speed for my discs.
I can burn a full disc in under 15 minutes 4.3 Gb worth

I was assuming that you were NOT rendering during the burner phase.

Once you have created the Mpeg, its just like burning any data file with the addition of the menu’s. and creating the vob structure. (this is getting to technical)

But you are correct as to the type of pc you have, Mine is a little bit slow, no comments please.

So How long does it take YOU to burn a disc?

Trevor

[Trevor Andrew]

Ho

By the way if I create an ISO file first I can get the burn to under 12 minutes.

Trevor

[daniel]

How long does it take YOU to burn a disc? (please reply)

I was biting to the 30 min 15 to make the menus...

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Daniel

You haven't answered my question.

How long does it take you to burn a disc.

Now I had to change the colour (color) to red.

If its taking longer than expected then.........................



Trevor

[ghoofie]

I suspect your problem is that you are thinking of things the wrong way round. The length of video you can fit on a disc is dependent on the bitrate, and not really the other way around. But the quality is also dependent on the bitrate, though in an inverse way.

If you have a project, as you did, of 1 hour 38 minutes, then to fit that on a single layer 4.7 GB DVD, then you would need a bitrate a little lower than 6000 kbps if you were using LPCM audio, but you would (as you did) probably fit it on one disc if you used either Dolby audio or mpeg layer 2 audio. This would give you good quality, though not the highest quality.

The HQ setting will use a bitrate of either 7000 or 8000 kbps. But, you can only fit around an hour of video onto a single layer disc if you use 8000 kbps and LPCM audio, or a bit more if you use Dolby or mpeg audio.

Probably doesn't sound like it, but I understand all that. What puzzles me is that when I go to the burn section, the kbps is set at 6000 no matter how long my project is. Is that a preference, default setting ? I haven't found that. And then I go to change settings and change it to, say, 7000 kbps. Now I go to the actual burn... I would expect an error message that says something like, "sorry your project is too long to burn at 7000 kbps on a 4.7gb dvd.". But it doesn't. It just burned the disc. Then I thought, it probably cut it short. The entire 1 and 38 minutes is on the disc.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

You say (So where does the original 6000 kbs come from ? Calculated by the program maybe ?)

Yes this may be correct.

Back in the edit timeline if you right click on a video clip and select properties.
These show the settings of the file, what are they?

From File -- Project Properties, these should look the same.

Once you have edited your project you should create a new video file
Share--Create Video File. ( the file should be smaller than 4.3 Gb to fit to disc)
You should use a bit-rate of about 5500 kbps for a 100 minute video.

There are bit-rate calculators you can use to help select the correct rate.
http://dvd-hq.info/Calculator.html


Then Start a NEW project
Share Create Disc ( making sure the Project Properties are the same.)
Now Add Video File (using the file created earlier.)

Providing the video file and the project properties match, then you should have no need to change any settings.


From the link below read:-

A Quick Guide for Mpeg
Bit Rates and File Sizes
Make Movie Manager.

Hope this Helps

Trevor

[ghoofie]

Eureka I found it (sort of) !!
Ok I went home at lunch time and just had to start up VS9 and look around. So the 6000 kbps that keeps showing (automatically) when I burn a DVD is what the mpeg was captured out. So I found in the capture options where to change that. Which leads me to this now:

The capture setting is set at 70 (percent?) in the speed/quality slider and that equates to 6000 kbps. So I have made lots of DVD at this capture and they look fine to me. Is that setting default for VS9? Couldn't find a default reset button anywhere. Tonight I'm gonna capture a short video at higher setting and see if I notice anything different. What does anyone expect I might notice, just for the sake of conversation

Thanks for all the input. The downloaded manual is not usueful at all. It only describes compression in the glossary.

[Ken Berry]

Glad the light finally dawned!

Now for the next misconception. Yes, the 70% setting on the quality/speed slider is the default. BUT (and you will see it is a big 'but'), it is NOT/NOT related to 6000 kbps. The bitrate is in fact largely irrelevant (or less directly relevant) to the slider setting. All the slider represents is an acceptable balance between the speed it takes the program to analyse and process your video, and the degree of quality that will result from this process. The 70% default is supposed to represent a combination of both very good final quality and an acceptable processing speed. It can apply whether the bitrate used on your video is 8000 kbps, 6000 bps or 4000 kbps or less.

I generally leave the slider alone and have never been disappointed by the final quality of my output video. Others slide it up to 100%. They seem to be mostly happy with the results, though the extra processing time may be considerable. I personally am not sure that any improvement in quality will be detectable with the naked eye. Moreover, in some cases, moving the slider up can actually cause the system to hang or the process to abort, though this does not seem to be a regular event...

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

I use the same procedure as Ken and have not changed the slider from its default position.

I am assuming you are capturing to Mpeg2.
In which case select Capture Format as DVD.

The Bit-Rate controls the quality of each frame, the more data a frame has the better its supposed to look.

As a guide:-
8000 kbps is top quality dvd
6000 kbps is very good quality dvd
4000 kbps is good quality Vhs


The Bit Rate also controls the size of the video file.
The higher the bit rate the larger the file.
The longer the video the larger the file.

A standard disc holds 4.3Gb worth of data.

As a guide:-
Using 8000 you can only fit 60 minutes to a disc.
Using 6000 you can only fit 90 minutes to a disc.
Using 4000 you can only fit 120 minutes to a disc.

So when I am capturing a long video say 2 hours, I would set my capture to 4000kbps
This will produce a file under 4.3 Gb and small enough to fit to disc.

After editing I Share Create Video File – Same as First Video
This will render the project using the same capture settings/clip settings.

I use this file in the Share Create Disc again using the same settings.

Rendering again in the Burner stage should not be necessary, other than to create the menu structure.

Hope this Helps

Trevor

[daniel]

You haven't answered my question.

Hi Trevor,

I think this dish is cold now, but anyway as I said I don't dispute your disc making in 15 minutes. I use 2.4x and write my DVDs with Roxio from DVD folders because it has a Verify option, but it's not the subject.

I was just impulsively responding to the part of the sentence when you said menus preparation is 30 min 15 (hundreths? seconds?, not specified...).
THAT part depends on every item I listed, and more,
and can be MUCH longer for complex motion menu/chapter sequences or
very short if you have no menu and just Audio/video mix, VOB writing etc.

But since you also wrote "about" I guess it's OK and within tolerance...
I'm sorry if you felt you were personally agressed or challenged.

[maddrummer3301]

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