Pulsing issue

quintalcosta · Post by **quintalcosta** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:21 am

Hi to all

I am producing a project that incororates an avi file made in cool 3D production Studio. Some people might know a globe turning around, with the words COOL 3D turning around that globe.

When creting the correspondent Video File, I use the following settings:

704 x 576 24 bits 25 fps BEST quality

I then incorporate the resulting avi file in the timeline MSP8 (together with other clips) and then create a Video file again. (I use anti-flicker check box).

The resulting Video File is then burned using Media Factioy 5.

On all situations described above, I always use the same settings.

When palying the resulting DVD, the picture is quite stable and problem free, except for the file created on COOL3D.

The problem is that there is a pulsing (or do we say a freeze?) every one second. I do not know the correct technical word, but what I mean is that every one second there is a slight freeze (?).

What am doing wrong and what can I do to remove this "pulsing"?

Thanks

Quintal Costa

Post by **Ron P.** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:24 pm

When you created the video file in 3DPS, what settings did you use? Did you use Frame Based, Field Order A or Field Order B? The pulsing seems to be indicative of mixing them. Also which codec was used?

Ron P.

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:48 pm

What are your MSP8 settings and the type and settings for the other files?

quintalcosta · Post by **quintalcosta** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:03 pm

I created the avi file in cool 3D using Frame Based. Also the codec used: under Video save Options I chose compression NONE (is this what you asked? If not, How do I see the codec used in COOL 3D?).

As to the other files: I made a new test, including on the project only the avi file from c3d and eliminating all other clips. The situation is the same: that pulsing effect. Therefore, I assume that the mixed issue with settings of other files makes no difference now.

My MSP8 settings are:

Under save options I have:

MPEG Files
24 bits, 704 x 576 x 25 fps
Frame based
DVD Pal 16:9-Video data rate: Variable (Max 8000 Kbps)
Data rate: 256 Kbps

Perform-non square pixel rendering - Checked
Encoder: ULEAD MPEG Now Encoder
Media type: PAL-DVD Quality 70
Two Pass encode – NOT checked
Deinterlacing – DISABLED

I have one more question: I am using dimensions 704 x 576. I have seen a warning under MPEG OUTPUT SETTINGS – BASIC SETTINGS that explains that the Video horizontal size is invalid. It says also that combination for DVD should be either 720 or 540. The reason I use 704 x 576 is because my other clips are imported from a Sony DVD camera with that dimension. Do you think this makes any difference?

I hope this information can help you to diagnose the problem.

Thanks.

Quintal Costa

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:35 pm

The most probable cause for your glitching is the fact that you are using too high a maximum bitrate. Many DVD players cannot handle this comfortably. I suggest you try 6000 kbit/s CBR.

That having been said, which codec are you using in Cool3D? I believe the default is uncompressed and the conversion of a moving image may well be running it at a high bitrate. If this is the case, using a compressed format may work a little better, as there will be fewer unique pixels for the encoder to convert. However, you cannot use DV codecs at 704 wide, I suggest the PICVideo MJPEG codec may be suitable.

I do not understand why you are getting that warning. 704 is a valid DVD MPEG-2 width, which is why you can select it. When exactly do you see this?

You may wish yo up your quality from 70 to 90. This will increase encoding time slightly, but there will be better pixel discrimination without altering the file size.

Finally, if you are displaying via a DVD player to a TV set, you would be well advised to use the same field order, throughout all your operations, as your original files. You need the interlacing.

quintalcosta · Post by **quintalcosta** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:30 pm

I followed your sugestions, Devil, but I keep on having that pulsing.

As to that warning message, it shows when I go to CREATE VIDEO FILE---------OPTIONS, ---------then I choose the COMPRESION tab ------ then I press ADVANCED---------BASIC SETTINGS tab . And then there is that warning.

What else can I do. I wouldn't like to quit including this clip.

Gorf · Post by **Gorf** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:10 am

quintalcosta wrote:...What else can I do. I wouldn't like to quit including this clip.

I get the pulsing on stills clips. I've used the Cinemacraft Basic encoder to bypass the problem. I really don't agree with throwing money ($60 for CCEb, last time I looked) at a problem to make it go away, but I've never been impressed with the Ulead MPEG encoders.

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:15 am

The correct video dimensions should be:
PAL 768 x 576 - 25 fps
NTSC 720 x 480 - 29.97 fps

These dimesions remain the same for 4.3 and also 16.9 modes.

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:44 am

sjj1805 wrote:The correct video dimensions should be:
PAL 768 x 576 - 25 fps
NTSC 720 x 480 - 29.97 fps

These dimesions remain the same for 4.3 and also 16.9 modes.

Uhhhhh?????? We are not talking the same language. 704 x 576 and 704 x 480 are perfectly acceptable for DVDs and I have NEVER burnt one at 768 x 576, always at 720 x 576.

That having been said, the DVDs for PAL AND NTSC are really burnt at 768, the difference between 704 or 720 being lost in the overscan. As 768 x 576 is 4:3, you should uncheck the non-square pixel rendering. Having said that I have a feeling that this may be the cause of your problem; in the very bottom of my memory something is itching in this respect.

Terry Stetler · Post by **Terry Stetler** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:44 am

Are you exporting it from C3D using frame or field?

If you haven't changed the default C3D is exporting in frame by default. If this is the case then you should be either be applying the anti-flicker option in its Media Source Options (just as if it were an image file) or changing the C3D export mode to field A or B, depending on your other sources field order.

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:12 pm

Yep - my mistake PAL is 720 x 576.

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:30 pm

sjj1805 wrote:Yep - my mistake PAL is 720 x 576.

...or 704 x 576 or 352 x 576 or 352 x 288 or 480 x 576: take your pick!

daniel · Post by **daniel** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:50 pm

If I'm not mistaken, PAL frame is 768 * 576 as Steve said/wrote.

PAL DVD format is 720 x 576. The rest is lost in the overscan, and then some more (up to 10-12% on bad picture tubes/deflection coils TV)...

Gorf · Post by **Gorf** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:56 pm

daniel wrote:If I'm not mistaken, PAL frame is 768 * 576 as Steve said/wrote.

PAL DVD format is 720 x 576. The rest is lost in the overscan, and then some more (up to 10-12% on bad picture tubes/deflection coils TV)...

You're mistaken.

PAL and NTSC as standards doesn't use pixels, they use analogue (analog) scan lines at a certain frequency.

The technology involves a delay after the last scan line has been shown on the screen while the beam goes back to the top of the screen to display the next field. Broadcasters use these "extra" lines to incorporate closed cpation or teletext data, but that's not necessary for a digital source, so just the "visible" lines are encoded (576 for PAL, 480 for NTSC). Some of that is lost in the overscan area, but overscan is a red herring here.

768x576 (for PAL) is the resolution of a digital PAL image if it has square pixels. DV and DVD have nonsquare pixels, so their resolution is 720x576. It's nothing to do with what's hidden by overscan. It's all down to the aspect ratio of the pixels.

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:12 pm

I got mixed up with the PAL Image resolution - simple mistake.
It's a bit like the size of a DVD disc - the label says 4.7 but in fact its 4.3

Devil was quite right - I made an error.