Differences between disks

slkx · Post by **slkx** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:33 am

Does anyone know what is going on when the following happens:

1. I use DMF3 to create a dvd from a bunch of very low quality mpegs and avis and some good quality vobs.
2. I burn it later and try using various different brands of discs, Imation, TDK, Ritek and a no-name special, in various formats, + and -. I deliberately slowed the burning speed on each case to 2.4x in case that's a problem.
3. On playback on my +/- standalone NEC dvd player, only the Imation discs (both formats) and once the TDK and once the no-name plays the output smoothly. The other disks jerk, jump, skip and stutter towards the end -- and ONLY towards the end. These brands of discs work perfectly on other perfect quality source mpegs.

Excuse my ignorance -- just want to know how things work under the hood...

PS Why does an avi file take so very much longer to render than any other format on Ulead?

slkx · Post by **slkx** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:45 am

No ideas at all, anyone?

T_Scheen · Post by **T_Scheen** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:30 pm

Well, what do we learn from that ? There is no such thing like a free meal !

If you want to be 100% sure that your DVD works, buy Brandname DVDs. I personally take DVD+R from either TDK or Philips. I burn at 4X speed on a Pioneer-burner and never ever encounterd any problems.
In various PC-magazines where they also test for Read-Write errors in the long run (Archiving purposes), they come to the same conclusion.
Here in Belgium, a DVD+R of a brandname costs 2$ and a no-name 1$. In my humble opinion, that extra-buck is well-spent.

There are 2 kind of avi's. The old-fashioned/uncompressed or DivX. I presume the latter takes longer to be converted to mpeg2/DVD.

maddrummer3301 · Post by **maddrummer3301** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:17 pm

If the computer is taking a very long time to render which is perfectly
normal for avi files there could be a memory problem or something similar.

In the dvd creation stage select to create an iso file or dvd folders and
don't burn a dvd.
Then close out all the programs and burn either the iso file or
dvd folders to a dvd using Burn.Now or Nero6.
Many users use Nero to perform the actual burning.

The outer edge of a dvd is the most probmatic location.
Take a glance at the outside edge (1/2") of brand name dvd's
versus the no-name cheaper dvd's.

MD

slkx · Post by **slkx** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:30 am

Thank you both for your insights.
As for the disc brands -- I had no idea some could handle lower-quality files better than others. I thought the tech was basically the same. I mean, consider the humble videotape -- sure I realise some will last longer than others, some with better colours etc but they all RECORD your program so you can play it back and see it as it was shown.
With discs, some just, well, don't. Why bother making them if they can't hack the job?! The thought of such difference in the fundamentals had never even occured to me... how can they even sell these discs with a straight face? And they weren't all no-name discs. The worst offenders were the riteks!

maddrummer3301 · Post by **maddrummer3301** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:54 am

Hi,

You probably did the same thing when you purchased your DVD writer.
Some are top-notch and others very poor.
The top rated burners are more expensive.

There are different grades of dvd's. Same as for VHS tape.
I like the Dvd's that say "Made In Japan" but most dvd's are manufactured
from only a few plants in the world. Then sold to the distributors under
their brand name.

Ritek has 3 quality grades.
They may not be compatible with your burner.
Look on the dvd box or the dvd manufactures web site for the media that's
supported by your dvd burner.

MD

phd · Post by **phd** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:07 am

You might want to check that they are legitimate Riteks. Info from this website:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm

Fake media. Fake media is often bad. If you ever acquire good media like TDK, RITEK or MXL, and the results are bad, check to see if the media is legitimate. Many of these top-tier media companies only have branded discs, not plain white-top or silver-top ones. TDK, MXL, and RITEK have been spoofed before. These discs often are cheaply-made unbranded 1x media with fake 2x or 4x Media ID speeds and maker ID codes.

Here's a program that can check your blank media:
http://dvd.identifier.cdfreaks.com/

slkx · Post by **slkx** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:58 am

Thanks phd, using that cool program I found two of the three batches of discs I had was Ritek... one, badged as Ritek, came up as unknown...
But even the original Riteks still struggle when burnt with poorer quality source files -- although work fine displaying regular quality video.
So I am now wondering if the DVD burner makes any difference...

maddrummer3301 wrote:You probably did the same thing when you purchased your DVD writer.
Some are top-notch and others very poor.
The top rated burners are more expensive.
They may not be compatible with your burner.

Now this has me intrigued... would a poor dvd burner struggle with poor quality source files or not? Would it make any difference to the burner? And if the burner isn't compatible with discs, wouldn't that mean they wouldn't burn AT ALL? ie what ways does an incompatible burner show up its incompatibility?

htchien · Post by **htchien** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:01 am

I think you might need to check if there is an firmware update for your burner.

BTW, what's your burner model??

You can check the following lists to know what media can work with your burner and player (you might already know them).

DVD Writer Compatibility List:
http://www.videohelp.com/dvdwriters

DVD Player Compatibility List:
http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers

Regards,
H.T.

slkx · Post by **slkx** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:15 am

I have a Liteon SOHW-812S. It has the latest firmware. (mid-2004)

I have been buying Ritek disks mainly, because I found them on the Liteon burner's compatibility list. Hence my confusion when the discs struggled with a fairly crappy batch of videos (turned into vobs by Ulead DVD MF3).

Which is also why I went on a quest to find which other brands play the crappy batch well .... and why I began to wonder why some do and some don't.

I have tested the discs on a huge variety of standalone players and the results are consistent -- poor playback on disc x and fine playback on disc y. So it is not the player/s which are struggling.

maddrummer3301 · Post by **maddrummer3301** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:55 am

Hi,
Once you find a brand that the Lite-On likes stay with them.
The Lite-On burner I have is a picky devil. It's also an older model.

It's hard to tell using the video programs whether the dvd has any errors
on it after it's created (burnt). Many video programs don't have a VERIFY
feature.

Many users use this method to create a dvd instead of MF burning it.
From the burner module stage of MF:
- Uncheck burn dvd.
- There is an arrow on the top right side.
-Click on that arrow to show more options.
- Either create a dvd folder OR/AND an .iso file (image file) on the harddisk.

Then use a program like Nero 6 to burn either the Dvd folders or the
.iso image to burn the DVD. When using Nero6 you can check an option
in the burning stage to VERIFY the disk after it's burnt.
A good step to take if your experiencing problems.

Hope this helps,

MD

slkx · Post by **slkx** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:02 am

I usually burn my files from hard drive (Deep Burner is the freebie of choice for me) because I have had some coasters via Ulead at times, when it got picky with my discs for some reason (a few brands ago, I don't use those any more) -- so I will try the Verify option you suggest.

What will it say if it's not good? Your disk is defective?

BruceD · Post by **BruceD** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:58 pm

There is another aspect to choosing disks that no one has mentioned. That is the ability of the disks to retain the data long after being burned. In CD's there are "Gold" and "Silver" types, not necessarily the color. Silver is supposed to last at least 30 years. Gold is supposed to last at least 100 years. Then there are those with neither type. I have seen them die within 5 years.
If you want good and lasting video DVD's you should consider buying "Authoring" types, but again most of these disks don't recommend Liteon as being an acceptable burner. You should check the disk recommendations as to burners to use as well as the burner recommended disks.
I have had cheap DVD's break down in less than a year from the time they were burned.
By the way there is a vast difference between the way professional video tapes are made and their performance over the cheap 5 for a dollar varieties. But again it takes good equipment for the difference to be seen.
The cheap tapes also will "chew" up your record/playback heads due to poor lubrication on the tape. After a few months the heads will be so screwed up, it won't make any difference what tape you use, they will ALL look lousy.