To: Whoever can help me.
From: Leo with thanks
Subject: Video_Ts and MF
I have recorded many tv programs on my DVD using Sony 308 DVD standaleone recorder. The format in the DVDs is Video_TS/Video_TS with VOB, IFO and BUP.
I tried to do some editings on my DVDs. So, I have them all transport to my harddrive. Then I tried to use MF to open them and have them edited, including some cutting and rearraning. Yet I have not been able to open an of my VOB files!! Is there anyway to edit VOB files using MF?
Thanks for any help from anyone.
from
Leo
VOB would not open for MF
-
SciFiFan
Unless I'm missing something, MF can't edited the VOBs, etc directly. Use the Import DVD-Video or DVD-VR function. On the main Add/Edit Media screen, click the right Icon at the top. It looks like a DVD. It will bring up a file manager for you to navigate to the location of the files. If you've created the VIDEO_TS directory on your hard drive you can get it from there otherwise navigate to your DVD drive and down to the VIDEO_TS directory.
-
Liu
John
Dear John:
Glad finally some one replied, John!
Especially someone from Sony.
Yes, my Sony set-top standalone DVD recorder created Video_ST and Audio_ST automatically and I do not have any choice or control over that.
But once in Video_ST folder, while I could only it, nothing can be done with it. I have tried MF, DVDit, Magic, etc. None seem to be able to edit it. Kindly advise, John, as to what sofeware do I need to deal with my Sony recoded DVDs?
While on Sony, kindly help me with another question. When I have a VHS tape with five hour LP recording and try to have it transfer to DVD LP [six hour] using Sony stand-alone [set-top] DVD recorder, why the quality is so horrible? Does it mean I must chose HQ [one hour per DVD] to transfer my five hour LP VHS? If so, does it mean each VHS tape with five hour recording woud need five DVDs [HQ recording mode]?
I believe my questions are getting complicated. When I posted my other questions two weeks ago, I got tens of replies. But this time, after several days, I got only your kind reply, John!
So, please help me.
Thank you very much.
Leo
Glad finally some one replied, John!
Especially someone from Sony.
Yes, my Sony set-top standalone DVD recorder created Video_ST and Audio_ST automatically and I do not have any choice or control over that.
But once in Video_ST folder, while I could only it, nothing can be done with it. I have tried MF, DVDit, Magic, etc. None seem to be able to edit it. Kindly advise, John, as to what sofeware do I need to deal with my Sony recoded DVDs?
While on Sony, kindly help me with another question. When I have a VHS tape with five hour LP recording and try to have it transfer to DVD LP [six hour] using Sony stand-alone [set-top] DVD recorder, why the quality is so horrible? Does it mean I must chose HQ [one hour per DVD] to transfer my five hour LP VHS? If so, does it mean each VHS tape with five hour recording woud need five DVDs [HQ recording mode]?
I believe my questions are getting complicated. When I posted my other questions two weeks ago, I got tens of replies. But this time, after several days, I got only your kind reply, John!
So, please help me.
Thank you very much.
Leo
-
Liu
John again
Dear John:
Sorry for the typing mistake.
I typed: while I could only it
Should read: While I could open it
Sorry
from Leo
Sorry for the typing mistake.
I typed: while I could only it
Should read: While I could open it
Sorry
from Leo
-
SciFiFan
I don't work for Sony. I just happen to own a Sony DVD Recorder. I'm just like you on this forum, looking for answers and posting them when I know the answer to a question.
The VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders are created as part of the standard that defines the structure of a DVD, as are the *.VOBs and *.IFO, etc files. You never have to worry about the names or locations. Very few, if any, applications edit on these directly. The mpeg file is extracted from it by IMPORTING the DVD. You will need a DVD authoring product such as the Ulead DVD MovieFactory. Since you are in this forum, is it true you have an application such as this? There are many products on the market and online that can extract the videos from the DVD.
The process is:
- Put the DVD in your drive,
- Create a new project in MF or other app.
- Clicking on the icon that Imports the DVD)
- Navigate to the DVD drive and the VIDEO_TS folder.
- click open (I think).
The product will churn a while and present a list of titles on the disk. You select the ones you want and click IMPORT. The titles will appear in the timeline at the bottom of the application window with name that ends in *.mpeg.
Now you can use the editing features to modify the titles.
Compared to DVDs, the quality of a VHS LP recording is MUCH poorer. The copy can be only as good as the original source, and no better...
Since that's what is on the tape, there is nothing you can do to improve that. It's not a DVD issue. Using the HQ mode will not change that. When recording to the DVD use the longest mode where you don't see a difference between the playback of the tape and the DVD recording. I suspect it will be at least the 4 hour mode, maybe even the 6 hour mode. I use the three hour mode to create my DVDs from the DirectTV feeds and they are ok for my purposes.
The VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders are created as part of the standard that defines the structure of a DVD, as are the *.VOBs and *.IFO, etc files. You never have to worry about the names or locations. Very few, if any, applications edit on these directly. The mpeg file is extracted from it by IMPORTING the DVD. You will need a DVD authoring product such as the Ulead DVD MovieFactory. Since you are in this forum, is it true you have an application such as this? There are many products on the market and online that can extract the videos from the DVD.
The process is:
- Put the DVD in your drive,
- Create a new project in MF or other app.
- Clicking on the icon that Imports the DVD)
- Navigate to the DVD drive and the VIDEO_TS folder.
- click open (I think).
The product will churn a while and present a list of titles on the disk. You select the ones you want and click IMPORT. The titles will appear in the timeline at the bottom of the application window with name that ends in *.mpeg.
Now you can use the editing features to modify the titles.
Compared to DVDs, the quality of a VHS LP recording is MUCH poorer. The copy can be only as good as the original source, and no better...
Since that's what is on the tape, there is nothing you can do to improve that. It's not a DVD issue. Using the HQ mode will not change that. When recording to the DVD use the longest mode where you don't see a difference between the playback of the tape and the DVD recording. I suspect it will be at least the 4 hour mode, maybe even the 6 hour mode. I use the three hour mode to create my DVDs from the DirectTV feeds and they are ok for my purposes.
-
Liu
To John with thanks
Dear John:
Thanks for your help and explanation. Sorry to think you were answering my question for SONY. My appreciation has become just greater.
Since the DVD I made out of VHS LP [5 hours] is much worse than the VHS quality. It is no longer a matter of "as-good-as-the-original". It is much worse. Is it the standalone DVD recorder? Or as you implied, there is no way at all to maintain the same quality?
If there is no way to maintain at least the originial VHS LP 5 hour quality, am I stuck with all my VHSs? To have a bunch of DVDs that are not watchable is worse than not to have my VHSs converted into DVDs at all. Is it the case, John?
Yes I got Movie Factory and a bunch of others. I will try your method out and report my success or failure here.
Many thanks, from
Leo
Thanks for your help and explanation. Sorry to think you were answering my question for SONY. My appreciation has become just greater.
Since the DVD I made out of VHS LP [5 hours] is much worse than the VHS quality. It is no longer a matter of "as-good-as-the-original". It is much worse. Is it the standalone DVD recorder? Or as you implied, there is no way at all to maintain the same quality?
If there is no way to maintain at least the originial VHS LP 5 hour quality, am I stuck with all my VHSs? To have a bunch of DVDs that are not watchable is worse than not to have my VHSs converted into DVDs at all. Is it the case, John?
Yes I got Movie Factory and a bunch of others. I will try your method out and report my success or failure here.
Many thanks, from
Leo
-
SciFiFan
You should be able to at least maintain close to the quality of the VHS tape. There are a couple things to check. It is possible that it's something else. Are these commerial VHS tapes you bought that you're trying to copy, or ones you made? If they are commerial tapes, they could be encoded with something called Macrovision. It's a method to prevent duplicating the tapes. The tape (mostly) plays ok, but causes the copy to be very bad. If they are tapes you made, then that's not the issue.
A. You are still using too long a mode,
B. The quality of the video signal from the VCR to the DVD Recorder is not good enough.
For A: use LP (180 minutes) or EP (240 minutes) mode to record. Don't use the longer SLP (360 minutes). That's sure to be a poorer quality. You may, as a trial, use the SP mode. If that is also poorer quality, then go to B, because it's possible something is wrong with the quality of the signal getting to the DVD Recorder.
I don't know your setup, but if you have equipment between the VCR and DVD Rec, there could be loss there. But most decent amps should be ok.
Set up like you are going to record, play the tape and look at the output from the DVD recorder. If that quality is the same as when you view the VHS directly from the VCR then your video connection is not loosing any quality. If the quality is much lower when viewed at the output of the DVD recorder, then your connection between the VCR and DVD recorder is poor.
From a VCR to the DVD you may have the following types of connections available in order of decreasing quality:
S-Video,
RCA connection,
RF (coax) connection.
S-video is the best, but your VCR may not have that type of connection.
The RCA Video/audio cable is ok, but get good cables, but don't spend over $10 for a cable. The very expensive cable are a waste of money.
Never use the coax for dubbing. it's the poorest quality.
A thought just occured. Can you describe the quality problem? is it just 'blurry' snow, what? That will give a clue.
I hope this helps.
A. You are still using too long a mode,
B. The quality of the video signal from the VCR to the DVD Recorder is not good enough.
For A: use LP (180 minutes) or EP (240 minutes) mode to record. Don't use the longer SLP (360 minutes). That's sure to be a poorer quality. You may, as a trial, use the SP mode. If that is also poorer quality, then go to B, because it's possible something is wrong with the quality of the signal getting to the DVD Recorder.
I don't know your setup, but if you have equipment between the VCR and DVD Rec, there could be loss there. But most decent amps should be ok.
Set up like you are going to record, play the tape and look at the output from the DVD recorder. If that quality is the same as when you view the VHS directly from the VCR then your video connection is not loosing any quality. If the quality is much lower when viewed at the output of the DVD recorder, then your connection between the VCR and DVD recorder is poor.
From a VCR to the DVD you may have the following types of connections available in order of decreasing quality:
S-Video,
RCA connection,
RF (coax) connection.
S-video is the best, but your VCR may not have that type of connection.
The RCA Video/audio cable is ok, but get good cables, but don't spend over $10 for a cable. The very expensive cable are a waste of money.
Never use the coax for dubbing. it's the poorest quality.
A thought just occured. Can you describe the quality problem? is it just 'blurry' snow, what? That will give a clue.
I hope this helps.
-
Liu
Still need John's help
Dear John:
My sad story is that I am not able to at least maintain close to the quality of my VHS tape. A five hour LP VHS in a five-hour LP DVD turns out quality three times worse than the original VHS [LP five hour]
Unfortunately, all my VHSs [two hundred of them] were recorded by myself from TV and all used five hour LP mode. Yet, their quality is definitely acceptable.
There is nothing between my stand-alone DVD recorder and my VCR and I used S-Video plus audio cables to transfer the video from VHS to DVD.
As you told me earlier, eve if I use HQ [one hour] mode to record my VHS [ending up with five DVDs], I would not be able to maintain the original quality of my five hour LP VHS, it has to be the signal problem you mention. As such, is there anyway out?
Thank you very much, John!
From Leo
My sad story is that I am not able to at least maintain close to the quality of my VHS tape. A five hour LP VHS in a five-hour LP DVD turns out quality three times worse than the original VHS [LP five hour]
Unfortunately, all my VHSs [two hundred of them] were recorded by myself from TV and all used five hour LP mode. Yet, their quality is definitely acceptable.
There is nothing between my stand-alone DVD recorder and my VCR and I used S-Video plus audio cables to transfer the video from VHS to DVD.
As you told me earlier, eve if I use HQ [one hour] mode to record my VHS [ending up with five DVDs], I would not be able to maintain the original quality of my five hour LP VHS, it has to be the signal problem you mention. As such, is there anyway out?
Thank you very much, John!
From Leo
-
heinz-oz
Hi Leo, it's me again (needed a short break after our last project).
Since you are complaining about the quality of a 6 hour VHS project burned to DVD, I can see that you have not understood the underlying principles.
I'll try to make this easy:
One other way of fitting more minutes/hours onta a DVD disk (note I say disk, not DVD because it will not play on a standard set top DVD player) is to use a higher compression codec like mpeg4, DivX, Xvid, wmv etc.
These codec's compress much tighter while still retaining the quality. You can play these on a PC but there are also DVD players coming on the market now, I believe, that can play some of these compression types. You can get a full length video, downloaded from the web and compressed to around 800 MB (even then you would only fit around 5 hours on a standard SL DVD disk).
In my closing statement I would like to say: If you are asking the impossible from a program, the only thing you are going to get is disappointment.
Since you are complaining about the quality of a 6 hour VHS project burned to DVD, I can see that you have not understood the underlying principles.
I'll try to make this easy:
- for VHS video converted to mpeg2 for DVD to look as good, or at least not much worse than the original, you will need a bit rate of around 4,000 to 4,500 kbps.
your DVD can hold 4.36 GB
you can only fit that amount of bits or kilobits or bytes or kilobytes to a DVD.
The bitrate you use for your conversion to mpeg2 determines
a. the quality of the DVD video, the higher the bit rate (kbps=kilo bits per second) the better the quality, but never better than the source
b. the filesize of your DVD folder (kbps multiplied with the duration of video)
One other way of fitting more minutes/hours onta a DVD disk (note I say disk, not DVD because it will not play on a standard set top DVD player) is to use a higher compression codec like mpeg4, DivX, Xvid, wmv etc.
These codec's compress much tighter while still retaining the quality. You can play these on a PC but there are also DVD players coming on the market now, I believe, that can play some of these compression types. You can get a full length video, downloaded from the web and compressed to around 800 MB (even then you would only fit around 5 hours on a standard SL DVD disk).
In my closing statement I would like to say: If you are asking the impossible from a program, the only thing you are going to get is disappointment.
-
heinz-oz
The other point of your post was the editing of VOB files. VOB files only have a meaning to DVD players but these need the information contained in the other files (IFO, BUP) to interprete and display the video/audio streams contained in the VOB files correctly. Since the output of MF is normally a DVD folder, containing the VOB, IFO and BUP files that make up the data set for your DVD player, the input has to be something else. In order to overcome that, MF allows you to Import a DVD. All you have to do to import is to use the 'Import' function of MF and to point MF to the location of your Video_TS folder.
-
Liu
Nice to see you again, master heinz-oz
Dear Master heinz-oz:
So very nice of you to come to my rescue again.
After three years' study on these subjects, I now realized how little I have learned and how little I do know!!!
As per MF 5, you said: ""MF allows you to Import a DVD. All you have to do to import is to use the 'Import' function of MF and to point MF to the location of your Video_TS folder"". But it just would not allow me to do so!
Every time when I tried to import an "existing project" from my DVD, even though the folder IS "Video_TS", it simply would not recognize it. And even the project type showed "PMF Project", the Video_TS still would not be recognized.... In fact, as I tried further, the program invaraibly collapsed!! Yes, collapsed...
As to my VHS problem, it is more serious as I have two hundred VHSs and they are all in LP five hour tapes. You said: "... not more than 2 hours per DVD"! Does it mean for each 5 hour LP VHS I got, to maintain similar quality, I need two and a half DVDs? If by doing this I could maintain the same "not-very-good quality" of my 5 hour LP VHS, I would still be very happy. At this point, I just want to ensure I understood you correctly.
You have been extremely nice and patient with me and I am honestly very grateful from the bottom of my heart. Would you kindly recommend a few books for me to read? I have read a lot but it seems I have chosen the wrong books and magazines to read over the past years.
Best wishes,
from Leo
So very nice of you to come to my rescue again.
After three years' study on these subjects, I now realized how little I have learned and how little I do know!!!
As per MF 5, you said: ""MF allows you to Import a DVD. All you have to do to import is to use the 'Import' function of MF and to point MF to the location of your Video_TS folder"". But it just would not allow me to do so!
Every time when I tried to import an "existing project" from my DVD, even though the folder IS "Video_TS", it simply would not recognize it. And even the project type showed "PMF Project", the Video_TS still would not be recognized.... In fact, as I tried further, the program invaraibly collapsed!! Yes, collapsed...
As to my VHS problem, it is more serious as I have two hundred VHSs and they are all in LP five hour tapes. You said: "... not more than 2 hours per DVD"! Does it mean for each 5 hour LP VHS I got, to maintain similar quality, I need two and a half DVDs? If by doing this I could maintain the same "not-very-good quality" of my 5 hour LP VHS, I would still be very happy. At this point, I just want to ensure I understood you correctly.
You have been extremely nice and patient with me and I am honestly very grateful from the bottom of my heart. Would you kindly recommend a few books for me to read? I have read a lot but it seems I have chosen the wrong books and magazines to read over the past years.
Best wishes,
from Leo
Leo,
Heinz is giving you very good and very detailed info, and is really spending a lot of time trying to help you.
But you need to open your eyes a bit more, and look at the manual too. For crying out loud.
Start the MF Launcher choose Import and click Import from DVD!!!
Heinz is giving you very good and very detailed info, and is really spending a lot of time trying to help you.
But you need to open your eyes a bit more, and look at the manual too. For crying out loud.
He didn't say to open an existing project!Every time when I tried to import an "existing project"
Start the MF Launcher choose Import and click Import from DVD!!!
Henry
-
heinz-oz
Re: Nice to see you again, master heinz-oz
Leo, please don't take offence but I think you, being a trained lawyer and all, are inadvertently trying to read between the lines and interpret what you read to your advantage. That may work in a court of law because the laws are written like that by people who make a living out of the ambiguities of law.Liu wrote:Dear Master heinz-oz:
So very nice of you to come to my rescue again.
After three years' study on these subjects, I now realized how little I have learned and how little I do know!!!
As per MF 5, you said: ""MF allows you to Import a DVD. All you have to do to import is to use the 'Import' function of MF and to point MF to the location of your Video_TS folder"". But it just would not allow me to do so!
Every time when I tried to import an "existing project" from my DVD, even though the folder IS "Video_TS", it simply would not recognize it. And even the project type showed "PMF Project", the Video_TS still would not be recognized.... In fact, as I tried further, the program invariably collapsed!! Yes, collapsed...
As to my VHS problem, it is more serious as I have two hundred VHSs and they are all in LP five hour tapes. You said: "... not more than 2 hours per DVD"! Does it mean for each 5 hour LP VHS I got, to maintain similar quality, I need two and a half DVDs? If by doing this I could maintain the same "not-very-good quality" of my 5 hour LP VHS, I would still be very happy. At this point, I just want to ensure I understood you correctly.
You have been extremely nice and patient with me and I am honestly very grateful from the bottom of my heart. Would you kindly recommend a few books for me to read? I have read a lot but it seems I have chosen the wrong books and magazines to read over the past years.
Best wishes,
from Leo
Laws of physics are different, they can't be bent into shape or interpreted in a way that suits us.
Also, as a lawyer, you should be capable of expressing precisely what it is that you are saying. Sadly, in this instance, that is not the case. You are constantly confusing terms and none of us really can be sure of what exactly you are saying.
Just in case you are not yet sure about a few terms, I will try to recap for you:
- To make a DVD we need
1. at least one video clip
2. this clip must be converted to a DVD compliant format, i.e. mpeg2
to do this we use an editor, or in your case an authorizing program like MF
3. to create a DVD in MF, we start a new Project and work with our clips within that Project, aiming at getting a DVD compliant file (mpeg2) and eventually author this compliant file (or several files) to DVD (Video_TS folder containing VOB, IFO and BUB files)
4. we must, at all times, clearly distinguish the different states of our project, if we want others to understand what we are on about. That means:
a. source video (the clip as it is imported/captured into the PC) this can be burned to DVD disk as data but not played on a stand alone DVD player
b. our MovieFactory Project (DWZ file) (Please note: This is not a video and cannot be burned to disk or used in another project)
c. rendered video files (mpeg2), the output one gets when using the command Create video file or whatever the relevant command is in the program one uses, again, these can be burned to DVD disk for backup and also played on the PC, some DVD players may also play these but there is no menu and these are not yet DVDs
d. DVD proper, either on a DVD disk, or as an ISO file or a DVD folder on the HDD
d.i the DVD disk can be used to import DVD into an MF project, using the import DVD function
d.ii the ISO file can be burned as a DVD to disk but requires a burning program that can read and convert this format into the proper DVD structure (Video_TS folder with VOB, IFO and BUP files), it cannot be used to be imported into another MF project
d.iii the Video_TS folder can be burned to disk and thus become a proper DVD or it can be imported into another MF project to create a different DVD with it. Just burned to a DVD disk as data, it will play on a DVD player and software DVD players on your PC will play the folder on your HDD like a DVD disk.
Just to recap once more You cannot import another project into MF and a properly authored DVD, whether on a HDD in the form of an ISO file or a Video_TS folder or, indeed already on a DVD disk is no longer a project.
Only if we refer to the correct terms in our posts can we be sure that all understand what we are on about.
No offence intended but I had to get this off my chest.
Now to your questions:
How did you get this Video_TS folder? Did you create it yourself and placed your project file into it? That won't work! as you probably found out. Please forgive me if I misjudged your process, I'm just going by what you said in your post.....use the 'Import' function of MF and to point MF to the location of your Video_TS folder"". But it just would not allow me to do so!
If, however, you completed a project in MF and created the proper DVD output but, instead of burning straight to disk (not recommended by some) burned to the HDD as a Video_TS folder, it should work.
Yes, to some extend. I don't know what you consider quality or the state of your footage. Because of the number of tapes you have, I would do a trial burn of two hour duration and another of 3 hours. Judge the quality you get and if you are happy enough with the 3 hour one, try a 4 hour. Use a Bitrate calculator to determine the bitrate you should use for the conversion to mpeg2 in order to put that much on a DVD disk. Also keep your audio compression low and use AC3 compression. This will allow more video data to fit on the disk. if you overshoot your target, use DVD Shrink to recompress the Video_TS folder on your HDD to fit the disk......I have two hundred VHSs and they are all in LP five hour tapes. You said: "... not more than 2 hours per DVD"! Does it mean for each 5 hour LP VHS I got, to maintain similar quality, I need two and a half DVDs?
-
Liu
thanks to heinz-oz
My Master heinz-oz:
You are truly a wonderful friend I am honored to meet here in this forum.
You have provided me with so much invaluable know-how and information. I will try harder to digest your explanation and instructions.
I will of course, also follow your instruction step by step to find a way out on all my problems, such as my VHS convertion etc.
You question is most significant: "How did you get this Video_TS folder? Did you create it yourself and placed your project file into it?
I created these Video_TS folders myself and did place my project file into it." Just as you said: That won't work!. But how would I know
. Theoretically, it should work.
Now a days, I spend half my time studying videos and video-related subjects. I have asked all the people I know, both on and off university campus; but no one knows the answers. I actually know more than my colleagues at the computer science department.
I will not ask you any more questions until after I have done some readings and studying. Would you kindly recommend a few books to read?
So far I have only read the books recommended by magazines and they do not seem to have helped.
My thanks to you and appreciation are most sincere and true.
From Leo, your loyal disciple
You are truly a wonderful friend I am honored to meet here in this forum.
You have provided me with so much invaluable know-how and information. I will try harder to digest your explanation and instructions.
I will of course, also follow your instruction step by step to find a way out on all my problems, such as my VHS convertion etc.
You question is most significant: "How did you get this Video_TS folder? Did you create it yourself and placed your project file into it?
I created these Video_TS folders myself and did place my project file into it." Just as you said: That won't work!. But how would I know
. Theoretically, it should work.Now a days, I spend half my time studying videos and video-related subjects. I have asked all the people I know, both on and off university campus; but no one knows the answers. I actually know more than my colleagues at the computer science department.
I will not ask you any more questions until after I have done some readings and studying. Would you kindly recommend a few books to read?
So far I have only read the books recommended by magazines and they do not seem to have helped.
My thanks to you and appreciation are most sincere and true.
From Leo, your loyal disciple