Devil has a problem

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:16 pm

This is peculiar. I burnt a DVD this afternoon. Checked it and it played perfectly on a set-top player. Gave it to someone who told me it crashed her computer. Tried it on 2 computers here and it crashed on both, a few seconds after starting playing, on 2 different DVD play softwares. This was on a 4 x DVD-R blank, authored in WS2. I then tried authoring in MF4 and burning on an 8x DVD+R blank. Exactly the same problem. Plays perfectly in set-top, crashes in 3 computers (asking me to send details to MS). I tried playing from DVD files on HDD, using the WS2 set-up, works fine. The MPEG-2 file plays fine in all cases. WS2 has all the latest updates (2.232) and burning files. Anyone got a clue?

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:58 pm

Not sure what's going on there Devil, but my first try would be to start suing RW discs

and to remove the item that is playing first, is it a first play item or the menu? and try without it, or with a new created item.

How hot is it with you? We are having record temps in the UK which is causing the clow down of pc's as the cpu slows itself to stop it overheating, just wondering if that has anything to do with it?

Straws and clutching come to mind with that answer

What's it playing in on the pc? Same app on each? Have you tried a different one?

Graham

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:50 pm

Devil Like Graham said, if you have a problem we're clutching at straws!

What I would consider is a bit of dirt may have found its way into your DVD burner. Perhaps a DVD Head cleaner may work.

Similarly has a foreign object inadvertantly found its way into the DVD burner causing the head to become slightly mis-aligned. That would explain a correct playback on the machine creating the DVD but faulty playback on other machines. (Happened to me a few weeks ago when the small white sponge at the top of a tub of blank DVD's found its way in - ended up changing the burner).

Don't know if the standalone DVD players are more robust to any head alingment issues.

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:23 am

Thanks!

OK, further info:
Summary:
1. All DVDs play fine on set-top player
2. No DVD, either + or - R plays on any of 3 computers, not even the one it was burnt on
3. On 2/3 computers I tried both Ulead DVD player and MS WMP (9 on 1, 10 on other), on the 3rd one, just WMP9
4. HDD DVD file plays perfectly on video computer
New tests:
5. Copying HDD DVD file to DVD causes same problem.
6. Transferred ISO file used in initial burns onto another computer. Burning -R disc gives 80041459 error. Burning RW or +R apparently succeeded and there is only one glitch at exactly the same place in each (about ½-way through)
7. Temperature could be an issue but with either the blanks themselves or the burners, not with the CPU/system zones. During all the tests I had no warnings (set for 65°C for the CPU and 50°C for both system zones). In any case, CPU usage is negligible during burning, because of DMA. Ambient temp in my office is ~31°C, even with aircon working.
8. Both burners are Samsung TS-H552U/553. The Samsung is not on the Ulead compatibility list, although the Toshiba TS-H552A is. I've done a search and found cases of users having burning troubles, some of a similar nature, although I've been happy up to now.

It looks like I need new burners

I'll make this the subject of a new thread.

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:38 am

This might not help at all, but if you think there's a chance it's a burner compatibility issue (i.e. not on Ulead's list of burners)...

Since you have an ISO image, you can burn that with many different packages.

For burning images, I like to use IMGBurn (latest version of the burn module of the old DVDDecryptor).

Regards,
George

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:01 pm

Summary:
1. All DVDs play fine on set-top player
2. No DVD, either + or - R plays on any of 3 computers, not even the one it was burnt on
3. On 2/3 computers I tried both Ulead DVD player and MS WMP (9 on 1, 10 on other), on the 3rd one, just WMP9

Ref items 1-2&3
This tends to show they are burning OK but problem is with Playback on the computer.
Have you tried playing previously working DVD’s or better still a commercially produced DVD to see if it plays OK. Purpose of test to confirm it is a playback issue and not a burning issue.

4. HDD DVD file plays perfectly on video computer

Item 4
This tends to confirm it is a disc related problem and not a software conflict with your playback programs. It also tends to suggest the DVD’s were authored OK.

New tests:
5. Copying HDD DVD file to DVD causes same problem.
6. Transferred ISO file used in initial burns onto another computer. Burning -R disc gives 80041459 errors. Burning RW or +R apparently succeeded and there is only one glitch at exactly the same place in each (about ½-way through)

Item 6
Possible even though unlikely is that there is a completely different fault on the other computer and perhaps you didn’t know of the fault before because you haven’t been using that other computer for burning.

7. Temperature could be an issue but with either the blanks themselves or the burners, not with the CPU/system zones. During all the tests I had no warnings (set for 65°C for the CPU and 50°C for both system zones). In any case, CPU usage is negligible during burning, because of DMA. Ambient temp in my office is ~31°C, even with aircon working.

Item 7
If you think the temperature could be a problem – we’re having an almighty heatwave here in the U.K. and I only burn late at night at the moment. You could try
1. Placing a desktop fan in front of the computer to give some extra air circulation.
2. Remove one of the CPU side panels.

8. Both burners are Samsung TS-H552U/553. The Samsung is not on the Ulead compatibility list, although the Toshiba TS-H552A is. I've done a search and found cases of users having burning troubles, some of a similar nature, although I've been happy up to now.

Item 8
I don’t know how long you’ve had these burners and if they have been working O.K. up until now I can’t see it making any difference – especially as you have two different burners – but – there is nothing to be lost by checking for firmware updates.

As Graham and I have both said we are clutching at straws. One final thing to remember is that too often we so called experts look too deep and miss the obvious simple answers.

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:18 pm

Summary:
1. All DVDs play fine on set-top player
2. No DVD, either + or - R plays on any of 3 computers, not even the one it was burnt on
3. On 2/3 computers I tried both Ulead DVD player and MS WMP (9 on 1, 10 on other), on the 3rd one, just WMP9

Ref items 1-2&3
This tends to show they are burning OK but problem is with Playback on the computer.

Yes and no. On all 3 computers? For me, this tends to show the set-top player is more tolerant of faults on the disc.
Have you tried playing previously working DVD’s or better still a commercially produced DVD to see if it plays OK. Purpose of test to confirm it is a playback issue and not a burning issue.
Pressed DVD plays back OK on all 3 computers

4. HDD DVD file plays perfectly on video computer

Item 4
This tends to confirm it is a disc related problem and not a software conflict with your playback programs. It also tends to suggest the DVD’s were authored OK.
Agreed

New tests:
5. Copying HDD DVD file to DVD causes same problem.
6. Transferred ISO file used in initial burns onto another computer. Burning -R disc gives 80041459 errors. Burning RW or +R apparently succeeded and there is only one glitch at exactly the same place in each (about ½-way through)

Item 6
Possible even though unlikely is that there is a completely different fault on the other computer and perhaps you didn’t know of the fault before because you haven’t been using that other computer for burning.

7. Temperature could be an issue but with either the blanks themselves or the burners, not with the CPU/system zones. During all the tests I had no warnings (set for 65°C for the CPU and 50°C for both system zones). In any case, CPU usage is negligible during burning, because of DMA. Ambient temp in my office is ~31°C, even with aircon working.

Item 7
If you think the temperature could be a problem – we’re having an almighty heatwave here in the U.K. and I only burn late at night at the moment. You could try
1. Placing a desktop fan in front of the computer to give some extra air circulation.
2. Remove one of the CPU side panels.

If the burners are suffering from heat stroke - not impossible - then I guess I need better ones. However, I cannot believe that the temp is really excessive, because of aircon. Incidentally, the video computer is caseless, because I;m always changing things. The other one is cased but has four fans and the only time it baulked was because of an accumulation of dog hairs, removed ~10 days ago.

8. Both burners are Samsung TS-H552U/553. The Samsung is not on the Ulead compatibility list, although the Toshiba TS-H552A is. I've done a search and found cases of users having burning troubles, some of a similar nature, although I've been happy up to now.

Item 8
I don’t know how long you’ve had these burners and if they have been working O.K. up until now I can’t see it making any difference – especially as you have two different burners – but – there is nothing to be lost by checking for firmware updates.

They are updated. The video one is ~18 months old and the other one is ~4 months. They are essentially identical, the only apparent difference being cosmetic. They use the same firmware.

As Graham and I have both said we are clutching at straws.
Me too!

One final thing to remember is that too often we so called experts look too deep and miss the obvious simple answers.
Agreed!!! (especially the "so-called")

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:19 pm

You haven't maybe inadvertently set a zone?

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:38 pm

a) No!

b) DVD±R/RW are zone-free: there is no photosensitive layer where the zones are set (ditto copy-protection)

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:59 pm

was worth a shot, but prompts the question as to why you have the options? would these only be applicable if the final output is to be sent away for pressing?

Regards,
Greg

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:06 pm

Exactly! They are relevant only for producing DLT tapes for glass-mastering.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:14 pm

Well at least I learnt something from this, sorry it's at your expense!
Something to try, author another DVD using different source material. Not sure if it will prove anything definitive, but worth a try.

Regards,
Greg

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:10 pm

Devil wrote:Pressed DVD plays back OK on all 3 computers

As rpessed dvds play on the pc's and burned ones don't I'd be looking at the burning process.

Can you get a burned dvd from somewhere totally different?

Can you borrow a burner to test on your pc?

Graham

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:10 pm

Thanks for all suggestions,

I'm trying to narrow things down.

As I reported yesterday, I had a version of my project that played OK on set-top but always glitched at same place with 2 DVDs on computers (crashing in 2 different DVD software players, actually 3 if you count WMP 9 and 10 as different). I replayed one disc in the set-top and did observe a minute pixel fault on the frame in question.

I went back to my AVI and found no fault on the frame in question, so I then put the mpg file into the MSP timeline and went through the delicate part frame-by-frame, with no apparent fault visible. However, with the file selected, using the arrow keys (the wrong way round, because it is the file that moves and the play head stays still!), it stuck on the faulty frame but again no visible evidence of bad encoding, even on full frame. Coincidence? Probably not.

Anyway, I carefully re-encoded it at the same settings (PAL DVD, 90%, 6000 CBR, AC-3 2.0 192 kbit/s, lower field first). The resultant MPG seemed OK, as far as I could tell, so I authored it in WS2 (grrrr! had to redo the menus!). This time, I requested a direct burn to a DVD-RW AND an ISO file.

The DVD-RW played perfectly in all computers so, thinks I, let's burn a DVD-R from the ISO file, still using WS2. The new disc crashed the computer at ~3 min into it (actually on a still image). After the air was cleared from all the blue profanities, I transferred the ISO file to another computer and burned a RW from it using DeepBurn. It crashed the computer at exactly the same frame.

I'm therefore coming to the conclusion that it is NOT the burners to blame as I thought but, much more serious, the way WS2 generates the ISO file, which is the ONLY thing in common in producing the last 2 trials (2 computers, 2 burners, 2 burning softwares, 2 disc types). However, the question remains why was I able to burn a RW which played correctly at the same time as generating the ISO file.

Taking the new mpg file into the timeline of MSP revealed no problems around the frame where it crashed the computer and it played perfectly as it ought with the arrow keys, selected or not, with not the slightest anomaly on any frame.

Anyway, I'm now reasonably confident that the main problem is happening because of something untoward in WS2, although I'm not yet 100% sure that there isn't something stupid happening elsewhere.

My next test will be to take the AVI file into WS2 and let it encode to DVD/MPG, rather than encode in MSP8.

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:49 pm

Can you try taking the avi's into another dvd authoring app, other than Ulead, something like Adobe encore, tmpg dvd author, get a trial version, and see what happens with one of those?