Questions about basic edit/burn process in 10 Plus

hagadorn · Post by **hagadorn** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:15 am

Hello! This is my first post. I have been using Videostudio 10 Plus for about a week now and I've referred to your forum for help. I am transferring Hi-8mm analog video from my camcorder tapes onto DVD. I capture with a Pinnacle 700-USB and edit with Videostudio. I need some help with the basics of Videostudio. I used to bring the original 2-hour video into the project timeline and then break it up into several clips using The Multi-Trim Video. Then I would go to Save Trimmed Video and save each clip as a separate MPG file because I wanted to use each as a scene on the DVD menu. But I realized that certain features did not get saved in the MPG clip, like titles and color correction. My solution was to save each clip as a VSP file and then add each VSP project file under Share. However, I’ve been reading this forum and it looks like the intended method is:
(1) bring the video into the timeline
(2) break it up into separate clips with their own titles and filters
(3) go to Share and create a video file of the entire project
(4) select Create Disc and add the video file
(5) select Add/Edit Chapters and use the jog bar to set up DVD menu scenes

Is this correct? If it is, I have two issues – first, it takes FOREVER to create the video file of the whole project, and second, now I’m having to go through the entire 2-hour video again to break it up into the same scenes that I did when I Multi-Trimmed. Please advise. BTW, it takes over 2 hours to burn my DVD.

TDK1044 · Post by **TDK1044** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:12 pm

The trick with any version of Video Studio is to keep your file properties the same for capture, render and burn. Your numbered protocol list is correct, and by keeping the file properties the same, rendering and burning should be reasonably fast. I render a one hour NTSC DVD file (with transitions, titles etc) in about 20 minutes and burning the first Disk (multiplexing etc) takes about the same amount of time.

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:27 pm

Hagadorn,
TDK is correct. I would add that your project (2 hours) is too long to burn on a DVD at best picture quality. I try to keep my projects short (20 minutes, or so), make video files of each, and select them for the DVD burn. Three of these fit nicely on a DVD. Short projects are easier to manage. The edit controls are less twitchy, and operations are faster to complete.

Read the top sticky post for work flows that offer the best chance of success.

hagadorn · Post by **hagadorn** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:53 am

Thanks for the advice. I tried it tonight and I made sure that all my properties matched but when I got to the Create Video File phase, it was taking too long so I stopped. At the rate is was going, it would have taken about 3 hours to create the hour-long MPG file (and I have a fast computer - 2.5G RAM). Is this normal? Here are the properties:

MPEG file
24 bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Frame-based
(DVD-NTSC), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
Audio data rate: 224 kbps
MPEG audio layer 2, 48 KHz, Stereo

Here are my computer stats:
Dell Dimension 8300
Pentium 4 CPU at 2.60 GHz
2.59 GHz, 2.5 GB DDR SDRAM at 400MHz
120GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive (7200RPM)
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition Version 2002 SP 2
Video Card: 128MB DDR ATI Radeon 9800 Pro AGP series 128MB

Also, can I just skip this step and go straight to creating a disc and adding chapters?

Thanks in advance.

Post by **Ron P.** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:02 am

Hagadorn,

While you do have a fast computer, and followed the recommended procedures, it is normal to take around 1.5 times the duration to create a video file. So 3 hours is not an extremely long time to create a 1 hour video file.

While yes in theory you can skip this step, it is not recommended to do. Besides you are not going to gain any time. The video file(s) will still need to be created. If you are editing DV-AVI, then the encoding to DVD compatible MPEG-2 will still take place. So it will still take around 3 hours to complete.

Once you have your DVD compatible video file created, the DVD burning should not be very long.

Ron P.

hagadorn · Post by **hagadorn** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:12 am

So if I skip this step, the MPG file will have to be be created in the burn process? That might explain why, in the past, when I didn't create the MPG file, the burn process took SOOO long. OK, Vidoman, I'll do it and see what happens. Thanks!

Post by **Ken Berry** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:22 am

A couple of comments, if I might? First, I notice that on installation of VS10 (and possibly 9), Create Video File defaults to the sort of properties you are using, including Frame Based as the field order, instead of, as it should be (probably) Upper Field First. I say 'probably' because this is the normal field order when capturing analogue video as you have.

However, I note that the Pinnacle 700 USB, apart from connecting to your computer via USB, also has a Firewire in/out port and can capture DV -- though it is not clear to me whether it can convert an analogue input signal from your Hi8 tape to DV on the fly and transmit it to your computer in that format. If so, then it is likely that the Field Order would be Lower Field First (as that is the usual field order for capture of digital signals...) I imagine also that, for best DV quality, you would have to capture via Firewire rather than the USB connection.

Producing a DVD using frame-based will play fine in your computer, but may not work so well in a stand-alone player. If it does not work, then you should change the field order to Upper Field First if you have just connected your analogue camera via RCA (or S-video/RCA audio) to the Pinnancle device, and are using the USB connection to capture direct to mpeg-2 (as I suspect you may be doing).

Regarding rendering time, yes, it is a lengthy process and depending on your computer resources, rendering can take 3 or 4 times real time to finish i.e. a one hour video project can take 3 or 4 hours (and sometimes more) to render. With your computer specifications, I would have expected a faster time than you are experiencing, but even so, your rendering time is certainly within the realm of the usual, particularly if you are not using Ulead's Smart Render (which is probably a good thing to avoid since there is strong evidence that it can lead to problems such as out of sync audio and video, particularly if you are starting with, and editing, mpeg-2 in the first place.)

As for for your question about 'skipping this step and going straight to creating a disc', well you can try it. But it won't save you any time as the project will still have to be rendered. But this time it will be done on the fly, together with the process of the program building your menus and mutliplexing the video and audio, and then actually burning. The burning process is complex enough for a computer, without adding the incredible demand of rendering the file into the bargain. As I say, it is of course possible to do, and some people do it successfully all the time. But lots of other people experience problems doing it. That is why we recommend the step-by-step approach.

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:24 am

vidoman wrote:Hagadorn,

While you do have a fast computer, and followed the recommended procedures, it is normal to take around 1.5 times the duration to create a video file. So 3 hours is not an extremely long time to create a 1 hour video file.

While yes in theory you can skip this step, it is not recommended to do. Besides you are not going to gain any time. The video file(s) will still need to be created. If you are editing DV-AVI, then the encoding to DVD compatible MPEG-2 will still take place. So it will still take around 3 hours to complete.

Once you have your DVD compatible video file created, the DVD burning should not be very long.

Ron P.

Hello vidoman,

where does it say he is capturing DV-AVI? As far as I understand, he is capturing analog to mpeg. Unless I misread something

Post by **Ken Berry** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:30 am

I also think he is capturing direct to mpeg-2. But as I noted above, his Pinnacle device can actually capture DV, and has a Firewire i/o port on it. The only think which is not overly clear to me is whether it will capture an analogue signal from the OP's Hi8 source, and convert that to DV which can be transmitted to the computer via Firewire. If it can, then I would certainly recommend that he do so...

hagadorn · Post by **hagadorn** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:39 am

Ken,

Thanks for the lengthy reply. For the particular project I am working on now, I am transferring a VHS tape, but the vast majority of my future projects will be transferring from Sony Hi8. I thought a Firewire only worked on DV captures from a DV source. Also, as far as I can see, my Pinnacle 700-USB only has a USB port.

I thought SmartRender is used to save modifications to a portion of the file so it doesn't have to render the whole file again. I can't use it to create my original video file of the whole project, can I?

BTW guys, I'm a "she", not a "he".

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:47 am

hagadorn,
The only thing that is wrong with your video properties is that the Field Order is set to Frame-Based, rather then Upper Field First, as it usually is for analog video. Are you certain that the captured video is Frame-based? Does the capture software have Field Order controls? Is it possible that the captured video is Upper Field First and the project propeties are Frame-Based?

Your capture device is made to transfer via the USB2 port. That much is fine.

Capturing to DVD-compliant Mpeg2 video is fine and should speed up the whole process. However, you have to manage the video properties carefully if you EDIT and you should create a video file before burning!

If you have captured DVD-compliant Mpeg2 (with correct filed order) and do not wish to edit at all, you can open a new project, click the SHARE tab, and go directly to Create Disk. Just remember to set the Burn properties to match those of your captured video.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:03 am

First, sorry about the transgender confusion!!

But first, I thought it might be useful to quote direct from the Pinnacle website about your device:

Hardware Specifications
700-USB Inputs:

* Composite video input (RCA connector) PAL, SECAM, NTSC
* S-Video input (mini-DIN connector) PAL, SECAM, NTSC
* Stereo audio input (2 x RCA connectors)
* IEEE 1394 I/O connector (6-pin type)

700-USB Outputs:

* Composite video output (RCA connector) PAL, NTSC
* S-Video output (mini-DIN connector) PAL, NTSC
* Stereo audio output (2 x RCA connectors)
* IEEE 1394 I/O connector (6-pin type)

700-USB Analog Video Capture and Output:

* Analog PAL & SECAM/NTSC input
* DV (IEEE 1394) camcorder capture 25Mbit/s. Full camera control support
* Compression: MPEG-2, MPEG-1, DV, MJPEG (User selectable. Available real-time capture formats depend on CPU speed)
* 700-USB Video Playback from Computer: Analog PAL / NTSC output
* DV (IEEE 1394) output to camcorder 25Mbit/s. Full camera/device control support

In other words, you clearly do have a Firewire connection, and on further reading of the last section on Analog Video Capture, I now believe that indeed you can connect an analogue device like your VCR (for your current project) or your Hi8 camera to the Pinnacle device and capture direct to DV format over the Firewire connection. This will certainly improve the quality of your captures potentially by an awful lot. Of course, you will also need a Firewire port on your computer, but Firewire cards are cheap these days. Note, when buying a firewire cable, that you will probably need one with a 6 pin plug at either end, since the Pinnacle device takes a full size plug.

Just to make it clearer, your Pinnacle device appears to be taking the place of a digital video camera which many people use as a pass-through device, connecting an analogue device like a VCR or analogue camera to the digital camera using a special cable for this (RCA yellow/red/white, and possibly S-video at one end, and what looks like a standard stereo plug at the other end which goes into the digital video camera's AV socket.) The digital camera does not do any filming during this process -- and it is, indeed, best not to put any cassette in it during this time. But the camera can convert the incoming analogue signal to DV and then transmit it over its firewire connection to the computer. Your Pinnacle device appears to work exactly the same way. And believe me, capturing analogue tape in DV format will definitely give you better quality than capture to mpeg-2 (which can, however, be good). The one downside of capturing to DV format is that it creates much bigger files (13 GB for one hour of video).

Now Smart Render (most people don't think it's very smart at all!

): it's purpose is to avoid rendering unedited portions of your project in the same format. In your case, you are starting with captured mpeg-2 files and are wanting to produce, after editing them, another mpeg-2 file for later burning to DVD. Right? Well, this is exactly what Smart Render was designed to do -- only render those part of your project where the actually editing has taken place. Only, more often than not it seems, Smart Render, while taking far less time, seems to stuff up the process, and will often produce problems such as out of sync audio and video that I have already mentioned. So that is why these days we tend to recommend people not use it.

While not wanting to open too large a can of worms, there has been an at times heated debate on this Board about the advisability of even editing mpeg video at all, with one camp saying that you should avoid it, while others say they do it successfully all the time. I tend to fall somewhere in the middle, since for a lot of people, they will often be in a situation where they can only capture in mpeg format, and thus also have no alternative but to edit it. To maximise chances of success, we say to them to try to capture in as high a quality mpeg as possible (high bit rate -- though for analogue source material, 6000 kbps is probably more than enough), and maintain that quality throughout the editing and rendering process. We also advise people not to use Smart Render.

If, on the other hand, you capture to DV format, and do your editing in that format, and only after doing all your editing, go to Share > Create Video File > DVD, to produce your DVD-compatible mpeg-2 file, this seems to have the potential to create far fewer, or no problems at all.

So basically, my advice to you is: explore your Pinnacle device further. It could contain a number of very pleasant surprises!

hagadorn · Post by **hagadorn** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:05 am

Actually, JCHunter, I mistakenly wrote "Frame-based". In Videostudio, I have the project poperties in edit and burn set to Upper Field First, but I don't see any Field order options in my capture device so I don't really know what Pinnacle 700-USB is doing. Is there a default?

Post by **Ken Berry** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:11 am

The default for most capture devices capturing from an analogue source is Upper Field First, so yours sounds right. But if you capture in DV format and transmit this over firewire, this will normally be Lower Field First.

hagadorn · Post by **hagadorn** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:24 am

Ken, I looked at the accessories that came with my Pinnacle and sure enough, there's a Firewire cable (IEEE 1394 cable 6x4) and I see the DV port on the device. I just assumed that I could only use USB because I am capturing from analog sources. So you're saying all I need is a Firewire card? I'm all for better quality but will it speed things up, too?