Please help re. DV format

[heinz-oz]

With as many tapes you have I would buy a good brand name dvd recorder. I use mine all the time.
My choice is Sony or Panasonic.
.

The aim is to preserve the full detail, i.e. DV-AVI how is your DVD recorder going to cope with that?

I know from my own experience, sometimes it pays to read everything before jumping to conclusions.

[Liu]

Dear Master heinz-oz?

Thanks again Thre question explanation is greta. But I got a problem with the second one. I have tried three stane alone regular DVD recorders but none of them has any choices of format.

Instead, it seems all such DVD recorders automatically use EPeg-2 format.

THere is yet another question: Ulead DVD Movie Factory produced onl;u Mpeg format [from Mpeg 1 to Mpeg 4]?

Many thanks
from
Leo

[Liu]

Dear Maddrummer:

Thanks; I am using three stand alone DVD recorders. One of them is extactlly Sony 305. But still, even when i chose the highest quality, namely, each MINI DV tape per 4.7 g DVD transfer, the recorded DVD still shows Jpeg format!
Is there any even better Sony I can use?
Thanks,
from
Leo

[skier-hughes]

As has been said before, dvd's have to use Mpeg2 for you to watch them.
All dvd recorders I've seen record to mpeg2, the more you put on a disc the lower thte quality goes.
If you want to burn a data dvd with dv-avi files you must use a pc.

[Bignosetw]

Wow - this thread has become quite convoluted - and has strayed a little off the original question.

So let's see if we can clear up some confusion, and start by stating some facts:

1. DVD can be "authored" on a PC, which means the video will be converted to MPEG 2 (720x480), and it will be playable in a player.
2. DVD can have video recorded on to it “direct-to-disc”. This is the way set-top recorders do it, and they do a conversion on-the-fly. They cannot capture DV tapes in their full resolution. Ulead DVD MovieFactory also allows you to capture direct-to-disc, also with the conversion to MPEG 2 - to make the disc playable.
3. DVD can have "data" burned on it by a PC. This can be documents, pictures, or video files - in any format you like from DV-AVI to MPEG-4 or whatever, but it will not be playable on a set-top player. It may play in a PC with soemthing like Windows Media Player, but probably not very smoothly.
4. If you wish to back up your DV tapes to standard DVD, you will have to capture/split the DV-AVI video in 4GB chunks and burn it as data to DVD. 1 hour of DV video is about 13 GB – so think 3 to 4 discs per tape. And then keep it out of the hands of any passing 3-year-old.

So let's go back and read the quote from the article that sparked this thread again:

"Ulead DVD Movie Factory 5..." in the August 2006 issue of CAMCORDER AND COMPUTERVIDEO. It stated on p. 50 that: "[Using Ulead DVD Moviefactory 5] You can author to to HD DVD, and record Blue-ray direct-to-direct, in MPEG-2...or DV formats."

Notice that it does not, in fact, talk about DVD at all. It is referring to “HD DVD” and “Blu-ray Discs.”

HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc are new, high-capacity, High-Definition formats. They come in single-and double-layer, with capacities from 15 to 50 GB. They are primarily intended for playing High-Definition (typically 1920x1080 frame size) video, and for data backup.

Current Ulead software support is more mature for Blu-ray, so I’ll use that as an example:

if youw ant to back up your DV tapes to Blu-ray, you have two options: burn a DV tape “Direct-to-disc” to Blu-ray. There is a conversion involved (to “BDAV” format) but this results in a disc that has full-resolution video, and is playable on a Blu-ray player. However, while full resolution, it is not strictly “native” DV anymore.

The second option is to burn the captured DV AVI file to Blu-ray disc as data (if your tapes are not completely full, or you capture selectively, you could get three or even 4 tapes on a 50GB Double-layer Blu-ray disc.)

BUT – the big “but” is that this is all rather academic, since Blu-ray and HD DVD players and burners are only now STARTING to come on the market, and they are still very expensive. The article was even a little premature about the current software’s capabilities, since the marketing material (that the writer received) clearly states that a burning pack will be released once sufficient hardware has become available to complete testing. So I would say in about 1 year the hardware and media would be affordable to the point where using it for this kind of backup would be viable.

So I hope that this has shed some light on what the original article was referring to.

And in the meantime, general consensus, when the issue of backing up tapes is discussed, still is that a large external hard drive is the best bang for your buck. You can get a LOT of video on a 200GB disc, which is very affordable, robust and offers instant non-linear access. Store it safely, and it should last a very, very long time.

Regards

Tobie Openshaw
Ulead Systems Taiwan

[Liu]

Dear Tobie Openshaw :

I was at the Taiwan Computer Show at the World Trade Centre. Sorry I did not know you then. Otherwise, I would surely insisted on meeting with you in taipei... Alas, I am back to Canada now.

That said, I am very grateful for your explanation. Indeed, the quoted article about Movie Factory and HD DVD raised my hope that perhaps I could use the HD DVD process to "author" "transfer" "achieve" or simply put, "burn" my native, virgin Mini DV tapes data to DVDs without losing anything and without depending on the dv-avi [nonplayable, mostly] format.

After you and other nice friends' explanations, I believe I will have to settle for the dv-avai format. As you and other pointed out, this would mean stand alone regular DVD recorder could not be do the job. I will have to rely on my computer to have them transfered into DV-AVI [as only computer can do it, as I now understand]. Moreover, DV-AVI cannot be played in regular dvd players.

If my above understanding is incorrect, please correct me. I thank you all for all the kind help and advice.

From Leo

[Liu]

Dear skier-hughes:
Thanks. The sad part of Ulead is that when I used Video Studio 6.0, the best video format allowed is "DVD best quality (5mb/sec). I learned that Video Studio 10 perhaps can do more. But with its Mpeg-2 format, it would never catch up with the quality and amount of data preseved in a Mini dv tapes.
Thanks,
by Leo

[skier-hughes]

I'm not sure about VS6, but for burning data dvds you are better off using your normal burning programme such as nero/roxio.

As for Tobies piece about facts, I'd take up his point about dv-avi's on dvds not playing smoothly via windows media player. I get lots come through from clients like this and I have no trouble at all paying them. My pc is not amazing but good.

[Liu]

Deaer skier-hughes:

Thanks for your follow-up.
I think I will from now on do the following:

1. As you said, use Nero or Roxie to transfer data onto DVDs, or
2. try to use Firewire to directly "dump" data on to DVDs.

Is the second method possible? My aim is to achieve "DV-avi"format, no matter now many DVDs are needed.
Thanks
from
Leo

[skier-hughes]

I don't know any way of achieving number 2.
As far as I know it has to be capture to pc, burn to dvd.

[Ron P.]

2.try to use Firewire to directly "dump" data on to DVDs.

You would be able to do this using DVDMFs Straight Capture to Disc. You can review the procedure in the DVDMF manual. For DVDMF5 go to page #26, for DVDMF4 DC it is found on page #57.

If you don't have the manuals they can be downloaded here:

DVDMF5 : http://www.ulead.com/dmf/documents.htm

DVDMF 4 DC : http://www.ulead.com/dmf4/documents.htm

Ron P.

[snoops]

Heinz,

sometimes it pays to read everything before jumping to conclusions

Exactly But sometimes even after reading a simple statement, things are just interpreted or assumed...

You are not seriously suggesting that a hobbyist ... get a backup of all these tapes from a professional replication shop in pressed form

No, I didn't even dream about suggesting this! I simply pointed out that a burnt DVD is not the same as a pressed DVD because this is often overlooked and the discs are not handled with this in mind.

I've had a few CD-R and DVD+R that were faulty just after a few months. The problem with a faulty disc is that it cannot be read anymore (unless the software allows ignoring CRC or data read errors). A fault on DV tape will show as a dropout but continue playing, unless of course the tape is damaged or the charge has deterioated.

I don't know if these bad discs simply had production flaws or if the burner was flaky (firmware and burn strategy for certain media) or if I was at fault. But I now stick to a known name brand disc, have a different burner, and keep the (sometimes transparent) cases in the dark.
I've seen no-name discs with visible flaws in the layer - I'm not kidding, seen with the naked eye as transparent "holes" in the otherwise silver layer. After their email request I sent them to the importer, never to hear anything, let alone the promised refund. These were labelled "sunstar" here in Europe.

Granted, I sometimes post sarcastic remarks as humor but they are not always understood as such. And I really enjoy it when Doug or the drummer add a remark that makes me laugh in the middle of the night in front of my PC. Adds spice to all the technical stuff.

I post to the best of my knowledge, but I do make mistakes and don't have infinite wisdom.

I do think it is a good idea to save the data to DVD, but also another copy on tape. Having the most important stuff on an external drive is very convenient for short term retrieval.

Anyway, sorry I got on your nerves. BTW the Italian goal was *not* correct, and we wanted Oz to remain in the quarter finals. Oh well.

[skier-hughes]

Anyway, sorry I got on your nerves. BTW the Italian goal was *not* correct, and we wanted Oz to remain in the quarter finals. Oh well.

I think the whole lot was a farce, so much cheating - or underhand "playing" going on I think only Germany deserved to be in the semi finals. We have an Aussie rellie here at the moment and he was gutted by the Italian play, then was just as bad when England got knocked out....

Still this I think is one of the wisest points on the BB

I post to the best of my knowledge, but I do make mistakes and don't have infinite wisdom.

[skier-hughes]

2.try to use Firewire to directly "dump" data on to DVDs.

You would be able to do this using DVDMFs Straight Capture to Disc. You can review the procedure in the DVDMF manual. For DVDMF5 go to page #26, for DVDMF4 DC it is found on page #57.

If you don't have the manuals they can be downloaded here:

DVDMF5 : http://www.ulead.com/dmf/documents.htm

DVDMF 4 DC : http://www.ulead.com/dmf4/documents.htm

Ron P.

Ron,

Doesn't this make a dvd video though - not a data disc as Liu wants to?

[Ron P.]

Yes, it probably does create a video disc. . I've never used it, but seems like the fastest way to go from a capture to DVD, without editing. I'll have to do some more reading on it, but I was figuring that if he choose DV-AVI (if it allows) would be about the same as archiving. Short of that then no it wouldn't work..

Ron P.