Please help re. DV format

[heinz-oz]

One thing I forgot. Yes, if you have all your MiniDV tapes backed up onto DVD disks in DV-AVI format, you can play these on your PC. They will be exactly the same format as your captured clips are now. Each disk will hold around 20 minutes.

Just open the Windows Explorer, click 'Start' > 'Explore' and navigate to the location of a captured clip on your hard disk. Double click the file and watch the clip play in MediaPlayer.

[Liu]

Dear Master Heinz Oz :

You are not only good, but very patient. Your explanation is always so clear, straightfoward but easy to understand. I wish I could teach my law students the same way you did. Thank you, Sir!

The most valuable information you provided me is that a regular stand-alone DVD recorder uses a format similar to Mpeg-2, even though I always use the "one-hour-tape [best quality] for each 4.7 DVD" equation.

Indeed, after reading your kind replies carefully, I have come to the conclusions:

First, DVD MovieFacotry would not solve my problem.

Secondly, I will indeed transfer all my precious data in about 100 tapes and still counting, onto DVDs.

Thirdly, until Video storage method has improved, I will in the meantimes, store all my tape data in AVI DV format, even if it means lots of DVDs. I feel one hundred DVDs still take up much less space than Mini DV tapes. More importantly, DVDs are much more durable.

Of course, I am convinced that in the not-so-distance future, Video technology will improve or invent a better way for us to store precious video data, similiar to the "Raw" format commonly used in still camera.

Thank you again, to all the people who have helped me so far [and in the future].

Leo, with thanks and gratitude

[Liu]

Dear Master Heinz Oz:

Thanks for the extra info. It is important to me now that I have decided to have all my Mini DV tapes sotred in DV-AVI format.
Of course, as you stated, each disk will hold around 20 minutes. But that is ok as long as I know all my data remain almost totally intact. To me, even without thinking about serious editing, any compression, even MPEG-4, is undesirable.

I will follow your instruction to play my to-be-made DVDs in DV-AVI format.

Best wishes, from

Liu

[heinz-oz]

Good thinking. One thing though, you mentioned mpeg4. Mpeg4, while retaining excellent quality in its virgin form, discards even more of the original data than what mpeg2 does. Mpeg4 file sizes for a given duration of video is considerably smaller in file size than mpeg2. That's why you can download a whole movie from the internet and it's only 800 MB or so. Just don't try to do too much with it.

Your approach is the right one as far as I'm concerned. I would want to archive my video in its virgin form, not some compressed form, with huge losses of original data.

I keep my tapes but have recently started to think about a more permanent storage medium. Tapes deteriorate too quickly and accidentally leaving them next to some magnetic field will destroy them irrepairably.

[Liu]

Dear Master Heinz Oz :

Thanks for your new reply, esp regading MPeg-4. As you stated, it causes more data loss. In fact, as it compressed 10 times smaller than the virgin data, I would not even want to touch Mpeg-4.

There is still one question that puzzles me: Why all stand-alone DVD recorders only record in some sort of format similar to Mpeg-2? With a ratio of one hour Mini DV tape for each 4.8 G DVD, would compression still take place automatically? Is there any way to prevent compression completely? Even if it means tons of DVDs to store.

Since you also keep all the tapes then you would appreciate my frustration of not "daring" to erase or reuse or discard all these tapes, some HI8 tapes, mostly Mini DV tapes....[and the pileup woud only continue with no end in sight in the forseeable future]

THe buttom line of my question is: Is there any way to capture or transfer Mini DV tapes data through a stand-alone DVD recorder in its very virgin form?
THank you , Heinz Oz.

[skier-hughes]

Just butting in.................

To keep the video uncompressed you'd need to use data dvds, which are different from movie dvds. The video would be stored as a dv-avi file and you'd need 4 dvds for each minidv tape. (dv-avi taking some 13gb per hour)

The dvd standard was made for everyone in the world to have one way of making dvds, thus Mpeg2 came into being.

My preference is to keep minidv tapes and not burn to dvd.

Tape has been known to last for considerable years, in fact some of my business is converting cine to dvd for people to watch as they no longer have a projector. This cine has been up to 55 years old. Now dvd may last that long, but we don't know yet.

[snoops]

Liu,

More importantly, DVDs are much more durable.

I think you've been brainwashed by the industry.
Pressed DVDs with real pits, like commercial movie DVDs (not burnt!) are suitable for long term archiving. But burnt DVDs are not nearly as durable as you've been made to believe. Put one on your window sill in the sunshine, and try playing it afterwards.

[heinz-oz]

Liu,

More importantly, DVDs are much more durable.

I think you've been brainwashed by the industry.
Pressed DVDs with real pits, like commercial movie DVDs (not burnt!) are suitable for long term archiving. But burnt DVDs are not nearly as durable as you've been made to believe. Put one on your window sill in the sunshine, and try playing it afterwards.

If you put your tape near a magnet, the same happens to your tape. Have you tried micro waving your pressed disks?? We are talking about some serious issues here and don't need bu***hit to cloud the issue. How many burned DVDs or CDs have you had fail on you, provided they are kept reasonably well protected? I got plenty of VHS tapes which have deteriorated just by storing them in a nice cupboard, away from radiant heat, magnetic fields etc. over a period of less than 10 years.

You are not seriously suggesting that a hobbyist with some 100 MiniDV tapes should go and get a backup of all these tapes from a professional replication shop in pressed form, just so they can keep 'em on the window sill, are you?

At least, DVD/CD disks can be copied after a few years again, if one was concerned about their longevity, without quality loss. Tapes however cannot.

Never the less, thanks for your "valuable" input snoops. No offence intended

[maddrummer3301]

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[Liu]

Dear skier-hughes:

Thank you for your explanation. Indeed, it seems I will have to keep all my tapes no matter what! I got literally about 100 Mini DV tapes and the number will continue to increase. In addition I got tons of Hi8 tapes to "digitized" and then store in dv-avi format.

In the final analysis, I am stuck with these tapes. Thanks
by
Leo

[Liu]

Dear Snoops:

Thanks for your reminder.
I am always worried that the tapes would break at any time, any moment, in any machine. Once broken, it is gone. I have tried to "mend" the broken pieces....[you know the rest of the story]

So, if one hour tape means four 4.8G DVDs in dv-avi format, I will do it.
I will keep both the tapes and the DVDs until one day the industry find a better way for us to keep the virgin data.

Thanks
by
Leo

[Liu]

Dear Master heinz-oz:

I am sincere and serious when I stated I would indeed have all my taped transferred to DVD in DV-AVI format. I will also keep all my tapes at the same times. If it takes me a lots of time to do so, no matter. It is worth it.
My tapes and their data are invaluable to me and honestly, many of them have been stored in fire-proofed safe. They are only less important than my very own family.

Try to repair a tape is next to impossible. All my attempts to restore a VHS , not to mention Hi8 etc, have failed.

By the way, two questions remain as there are conflicting replies above:

First, can DVD in DV-AVI format be played in a regular DVD player or not?

Seconedly, some magazine articles stated that DV-AVI was the format to be utilized with an aim to have the "edited, cimpiled clips" transfered back to a tape. Is this also true?

thanks again, heinz-oz

From Leo

[Liu]

Dear maddrummer3301:

Tapes are fragile and could get caught when playing or loading or unloading or rewinding--- of course, you know these just too well.

That is why I am always nervous about the tapes. With DVDs, as long as I take good care of them and try to buy the recently produced "scratch resistant" ones, I would feel quite safe.

With tapes, I am sure you know, you have to put them horizontally all the time! I have read many articles saying if we store tapes flat, they could eventually "collapsed" or "flatten"...

I had better start transferring all my tapes into DVDs in DV-AVI format now.... Thanks God, DVD blanks are cheap nowadays, compared with 5 to seven dollar each.
Best wishes,
Leo

[heinz-oz]

....
First, can DVD in DV-AVI format be played in a regular DVD player or not?

A normal, standard run of the mill stand alone DVD player cannot to my knowledge.

Seconedly, some magazine articles stated that DV-AVI was the format to be utilized with an aim to have the "edited, cimpiled clips" transfered back to a tape. Is this also true?

As long as the DV-AVI source has not been altered, I would think so because, essentially, the DV-AVI on your PC/DVD is a direct copy of the tape content. I do believe, however, that you would have to use a program like VS or MSP to write the data back to tape. That's easily enough done by putting the clips for each tape on the time line and use the "Export to tape" function.

......
Comments in red color added by Heinz_Oz, 27. July 2006

From Leo

[maddrummer3301]

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