Hello! George are you there? So sorry I mean STEVE!

sunshinegirl690 · Post by **sunshinegirl690** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:02 pm

Dear Steve, (my mind is going

I am confused

I do not have a video camera, but I want to purchase one. I am looking at the Panasonic PV GS 300. It is not on the Ulead list, the 400 is. I am assuming it will work?? Are there others not on the list that will work? Also a friend told me not to buy a DVD camcorder because you can't edit the DVD's. Is that true? Doesn't the Panasonic record to dvd's? or mini tapes or both? Do cameras that only have a firewire connection work for editing? As you can see I don't have a clue here. I have just started to get into this video editing with stills and small video clips from my sony camera. Your help is extremely appreciated. I read your posts, you seem very helpful and knowledgeable.
Thank you
Suzie

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:26 pm

Hi Suzie,

I am not Steve, but here's some info...

Just recently, there was a question about this same model (miniDV tape -- not DVD's).

Here is a current discussion on the unit: Discussion on GS 300

I actually considered this model recently, but the missing analog-to-dv pass-thru option was a deal-breaker for me. If you don't need that function, then depending on the price, it could be a great deal...

Here is a link to CNET's review: CNET Reviews GS300

Regards,
George

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:12 pm

Hi Suzie,

I'm neither George nor Steve

but would like to give you some pointers.

In general terms, there is nothing that would stop a digital camera/camcorder to be used with Ulead. The list is only a hint. As soon as one compiles a list, some brand releases new models and these won't be on the list.

I am one of the voices against DVD camcorders because of my own experience with mpeg editing. There are people, however, who claim that they successfully edit mpeg.

I use an older Panasonic DA1 digital camcorder plus a relatively new Panasonic GS 400. The GS 400 I bought because it offered the already mentioned AV pass through function. The DA1 didn't have that. The GS, of course has 3 CCDs also, which makes for better color reproduction. The GA1 takes a cleaner image though. It's horses for courses really.

If the GS 300 doesn't have the AV pass through but you would need to convert old analog VHS tapes, maybe you should go for a different unit. Other than that, I personally would not look at anything else than Panasonic when it comes to video and Canon or Nikon when it comes to still images. Personal preference only.

I have not heared of a digital camcorder that does not have the iLink (others refer to firewire or IEEE1394 which is essentially the same) but some claim they can transfer via USB and don't need the iLink. I haven't seen a successful use of USB for full frame, full frame rate video but others claim it works. The only few times that I had to help out friends with their video problems was when they tried to use the USB connection. Switching to firewire fixed that in each case.

To sum it all up, any digital camcorder will be able to provide video clips for editing in Ulead programs, listed or not. Not only my preference, at this point in time, would be a camera that records to MiniDV tape. Harddisk or DVD cam's create an issue for the editor in as much as the footage provided is already compressed (lossy) whereas DV-AVI from a MiniDV tape is only slightly compressed with an almost lossless compression. The best method to get the video into a PC for editing is via firewire aka iLink aka IEEE1394, not USB like some would advocate.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:31 pm

And I also am not Steve, but would add my two cents on your question: "Do cameras that only have a firewire connection work for editing?"

The question itself is not totally clear and relates in part to George's reply.

You will find a Firewire port on all video cameras which use mini DV tapes. All of them. And Firewire is the ONLY way of guaranteeing a high quality capture in that same format -- exactly equivalent to the quality of the tape in your camera. (I am speaking here of the general run of DV cameras -- but there are now some rather expensive high-end cameras which also allow high quality capture over USB 2.0. But do not be fooled, as all USB 2 ports are not created equal. In the cheaper cameras, they only allow transfer lower quality streaming video for web presentations or messages...)

Moreover, we always recommend that if you can capture in DV format you not only do that, but ALWAYS edit in the same format. And only when your editing is done, you convert it to DVD-compatible mpeg-2 for burning.

Now the relation to George's reply and my uncertainty about your question. From what I can see, the GS300 does not have 'only' a firewire connection in any case, but also USB 2 (but see above), A/V (which allows you to connect to an external source via a cable which is usually provided) and S-video which gives a higher quality video from an analogue source. But my comments about using DV format for capture remain.

However, George has obviously done his homework and says that the camera does not offer pass-through. (Here, I am simply assuming he is correct -- I have not found a reference to this in the couple of reviews of the GS300 I have read.) Essentially, pass-through means that with cameras that have it, you can connect an analogue camera or VCR to the camera via the A/V port/S-video port, and the digital camera will convert the analogue signal to digital DV format which is then transmitted over the Firewire connection. In other words, you have the best chance of capturing your old tapes in the highest quality. If you have lots of old analogue tapes which you will want to convert to digital, then George's advice is not to buy the GS300 since it does not have this capacity. But if you don't have this intention, then go ahead: the GS300 is a good package.

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:19 am

Suzie
Thank you for asking. George, Heinz and Ken have all beaten me to the answer though!
There was quite a good debate here:
buying new camcorder and confused!

There were a couple of heated discussions here:
Harddrive Camcorder
Which Camcorder to Buy

I myself have a MiniDV Camcorder - this is a camcorder that takes digital 8 tape cassettes.
The cassettes are not expensive and can in fact be purchased at Supermarkets like Asda, Tesco etc.
It records in DV (AVI) format and connects to the computer by way of an IEEE1394 firewire iLink cable.

You can get camcorders that provide what is known as a pass through so that you can connect your VHS tape player to the camcorder and then the camcorder to the computer. This provides an additional method of moving your VHS tape collection onto DVD.

One additional point which doesn't appear to have been covered by my friends above is that most camcorders also provide a still image function. These come in 2 forms.
1. A separate SD type card like an ordinary digital camera.
2. Still images that are caught on the Digital 8 tape in amongst the rest of the video. This works by recording a freeze frame for something like 3-5 seconds.

My camcorder has the 2nd method and in my opinion it is simply a sales gimmick. I can't comment on the 1st method because I don't have that sort of camcorder.

In my view the camcorder will never replace the digital camera.
The digital camera will never replace the camcorder.
A mobile telephone will never replace either.
Remember that you are puchasing a camcorder and ignore this extra option.

I remember taking my eldest son to buy his first car. He was more interested in the stereo in the car than the car itself!

Another thing to consider is to get an extra battery pack. It's wise to have a second battery - imagine being on your holidays and the battery runs out - thats simply evil.

Optical zoom -v- digital zoom.
My camcorder has 20x optical zoom and 990x digital zoom.

Now before you start thinking of using it to look for that famous flag on the surface of the moon what this means is this:

Optical zoom is the good old fashioned zoom you get via the camera lens.
Digital zoom is a bit like when you have a picture on your computer and then use some software to keep zooming in until such time as the picture starts to break up and get blocky.

Digital zoom is in fact quite good but a tripod is an absolute MUST. the slightest bit of shake sends your picture all over the place. In other words place more emphasis on optical zoom than digital.

If possible get a camcorder that enables you to attach an external microphone. The reason for this is that the built in microphone picks up the noise of the camcorder motor. When filming a fairly quiet scene the sound of the motor can become noticeable on playback.

Take into account the weight and size of the camcorder. If its heavy - try and imagine filming a scene lasting 30 mins or so - image holding a bag of sugar to your eye for that same 30 minutes. You would be best advised going to a shop and asking to see and hold the camcorder you have in mind - don't go by a picture in a magazine or on the internet.

Take into account where the controls on the camcorder are located. Is it easy to start/stop recording, where is the zoom control.

It's a bit like buying a glove - you need something that fits YOUR hand not someone elses.

Hope I'm not putting you off - what I'm trying to say is what advice would you give to another female who wants your opinion about purchasing a handbag or a pair of shoes.

maddrummer3301 · Post by **maddrummer3301** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:56 am

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:11 am

They still call it Asda over here but yes its been taken over by Wal-Mart.

maddrummer3301 · Post by **maddrummer3301** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:14 am

Post by **Ken Berry** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:23 am

Well, Australia still seems to be Wal-Mart free, if not completely Wally-free (as I think only my British friends will understand!)

And Steve, I am impressed that you have a mini DV camera which takes digital 8 cassettes: "I myself have a MiniDV Camcorder - this is a camcorder that takes digital 8 tape cassettes."

Just having a dig at you! I know you have a Sony digital 8 which takes analogue 8mm and Hi8 cassettes (as I do, apart from my *real* mini DV Canon).

But one thing intrigued me, off topic, is your statement that you can easily buy the cassettes from, amongst others, the Wallies. Here in the Land of Oz, you can still buy analogue 8mm tapes widely, but getting the digital 8mm version is far more difficult and rather expensive these days, given that the ones available seem to be almost exclusively Sony (surprise surprise)

sunshinegirl690 · Post by **sunshinegirl690** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:03 pm

Well.....George, Heinz-oz, Ken, maddrummer and of course Steve! THANK YOU GUYS! A wealth of info that I needed. Oh by the way, when it comes to video even if it is what the pro-videographers use, would it then be a Canon? Those cameras are major$$$$$!

At SuperWalmart (of course) I bought a mini BLUE video camera, basically it is fps and was $99.99, transfers by usb, takes pics 2 or 3mp, records just voice and has mp3. I bought it for the sandbar which we go to by boat on the weekends. I didn't want to buy anything that my husband would kill me if say I dropped it in the water! I have used it in a few videos and put it in the overlay track and made it smaller for better quality. But it is fun, and would be good for kids to use for email etc...

Well talk to you later
Suzie

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:13 pm

Ken Berry wrote:Well, Australia still seems to be Wal-Mart free, if not completely Wally-free (as I think only my British friends will understand!)

And Steve, I am impressed that you have a mini DV camera which takes digital 8 cassettes: "I myself have a MiniDV Camcorder - this is a camcorder that takes digital 8 tape cassettes." Just having a dig at you! I know you have a Sony digital 8 which takes analogue 8mm and Hi8 cassettes (as I do, apart from my *real* mini DV Canon).

But one thing intrigued me, off topic, is your statement that you can easily buy the cassettes from, amongst others, the Wallies. Here in the Land of Oz, you can still buy analogue 8mm tapes widely, but getting the digital 8mm version is far more difficult and rather expensive these days, given that the ones available seem to be almost exclusively Sony (surprise surprise)

Don't they have "Argos" in OZ
http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/p ... 705410.htm

Post by **Ken Berry** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:31 pm

No we don't, and I can't even say the name is familiar from my many visits to the UK... Mind you, I was probably not looking for that sort of shop anyway at the time! But that price is fairly amazing. At the usual camera/electronics shops here, a single Sony Digital 8 cassette costs A$26, which is roughly the price you pay for 3... Sigh...

Angler · Post by **Angler** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:58 pm

Hello,

Brand new member here. Just landed after an exhausting 5 hours of research a la "vhs to minidv capture" via google.

I've been through every forum, and don't trust 'articles' written by journalists, and still couldn't find a solid answer to my question.

I wanted to hear "yes, I use the passthrough feature on my $300 minidv
to convert vhs tapes, and it works perfectly", and I wanted to hear it a
number of times too.

After my friend blew his computer with the awful "Dazzle 90" product, I thought I'd blow mine too, since he obviously didn't know what he was doing.
Big mistake. Not only did the software not launch...not even launch...but, when I removed it, my computer didn't see my cdrom drives any longer ( for which I found a beautiful and simple fix online ). I researched the Dazzle 90 only to find out that about 1,000,000 other people were angry this product was released also.

So. Now that I was spooked, I did major research into capture cards.

I did not want to use a pci slot.

What I found out was this..."don't use USB. Period." Over time, the audio and video synch will fall out.

ok.

Also, editing mpegs is trickier than editing avi's. Ok, this I understand conceptually since I'm a musician, and this would be like editing an mp3 vs editing a .wav file. No contest.

So, I ended up choosing the Canopus ADVC-110 as a potential choice.
Heard great things about it, repeatedly. The only thing I didn't like, was
that it converts to Mpeg 2, and I didn't see an option to convert to straight
avi mentioned anywhere. ( maybe it does, I don't know )

Then, a film student mentioned, that you could use a passthrough on
a minidv camera!! and it produces a raw avi file.

My questions were, and are,

If I chose a camera like the JVC GR-D350, which is nice and cheap.
Only a $100 more than the canopus converter.

1) will it give me as good an image using a passthrough feature?
2) will it keep audio and video synch over for a 2 hour vhs tape?
3) do the 'chips' on the minidv's affect the AV signal, or is a passthrough
from a VHS deck using the RCA cables, going to go past all that and into
the computer as a raw .avi file?

I would love to own a cheap camera. I'm just a hobbyist obviously.

So, the quality of the lense and all of the feature stuff isn't really a
concern....Although, IF it only cost a little more to have the option to
input an audio source via something besides the cameras mic, I
would enjoy that, being an audio guy.

So, I want a cheap, reliable camera to convert my beloved VHS
tapes to DVD.

I want no hassles with audio/video synch over a 2 hour period ( for example ) I want good quality image, in avi format.

So, the minidv, has to have a firewire port, the ability to take the 3 rca
cables from a vhs deck, a passthrough feature, good image quality, to
raw avi. Again, I don't care about the camera per say, if I can make
junky home movies, fine. The external audio mic feature would be nice
thought.

Would the JVC GR-D350 cut it do you think?

Or, do you have other recommendations for around the same cost, or
slightly higher.

Thanks for any help!!!

Angler.

p.s my computer is an AMD 3200, 2 gigs of ram, with an asus A8V motherboard.

Mike-Mat · Post by **Mike-Mat** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:00 pm

Just for the sake of clarity, I thought I should point out that.... I'm not George or Steve either.

Mike Mattera

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:10 am

Well angler, let me say this:

1. welcome to the forum
2. that's along post you have got there
3. you may have been better off starting a new thread with that, rather than hitching a ride much better chance for a response (I only happened onto this one by chance because it was pretty much done a few days ago)
4. it's great that you tell us up front what you want hear but I'm not going to tell you that. Well, not in such a simple form.

Check out the camcorder that claims it has pass through, many don't, not the cheaper ones.

As long as the camera has an AV-In port and an iLink Out, you can still use it. You may have to copy the analog video onto MiniDV tape first. Once you have done that you can easily capture DV-AVI through the iLink aka firewire aka IEEE1394 via a firewire cable and a cheap PCI firwire card in case your PC doesn't have a firewire port.

The better ones, camcorders that is, have true pass through. I use a Panasonic GS400 and got rid of my Snazzy capture card even though that was working ok (only mpeg though).

I have captured 2 hour plus VHS tape content without a hitch through the Panasonic. The picture/sound quality is the same as the original. No sync issues, perfect.

Be prepared though for a big hit on your HDD space. 1 hour DV-AVI uses 13GB HDD space but it's worth it.