Poor Video Quality on DVD - Hard Drive Camera - MPEG2

[mkropatsch@hotmail.com]

I have a JVC hard drive camera. Video replay from the camera looks great. When I added transitions and background audio, then burned to DVD the video quality deteriorated. The picture is not as crisp and when there is movement in the video it is fairly blurry. I am using VS10+, as it is able to handle the JVC .MOD file format. Can anyone tell me how to correct this issue?

NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First
(DVD-NTSC), 16:9
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8264 kbps)
Audio data rate: 256 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)

[TDK1044]

System specs would help here. The first thing I'd look at are the properties of the captured, rendered and burnt files. If your video is loading as NTSC 720 X 480 MPEG2 LFF with Dolby Digital Audio, then make sure that when you render and burn, the properties you're using are identical. Incorrect field order could cause the error you describe with camera movement, but a video card with low onboard RAM or low system RAM could also cause this and that's why we need your system specs.

[mkropatsch@hotmail.com]

File Format: NTSC DVD
Video Type: Mpeg-2 Video, Upper Field First
Attributes: 24 bits, 720x480, 16:9
Data rate: Variable Bit Rate (Max 8400)


Audio: Dolby Digital Audio
Atributes: 48000 Hz
Layer: None
Bit Rate 384

I have made previous VS discs with no issues, but not with a hard drive camera.

I have P4 - 3.0 ghz
1gb Ram

[TDK1044]

You may be a good candidate for capturing, rendering and burning at a constant bit rate rather than variable. Change variable to constant at capture, render and burn, and make it constant at 8000kbps.

[mkropatsch@hotmail.com]

Since I am using a hard drive camera there is no capturing. I just transfer the file from the camera to the computer.

[mkropatsch@hotmail.com]

To minimize any other VS issues. I did a new project with just 2 video clips (no transitions or anything), set at 8,000 constant. Same result as earlier. I also tried buring the video to disk using Cyberlink and it produced an excellent result. Unfortunately, transitions, editing, and other options in VS 10+ are extremely limited in Cyberlink.

Any other ideas?

[mkropatsch@hotmail.com]

I used Cyberdirector to save the .mod files to mpeg. I then tried to simply burn a disk in VS 10+, which created the same poor results. I then did the same thing in VS 9 and it produced a good quality video.

Is this a bad setting in 10+ or am I missing something.

[Jerry Jones]

I don't own a JVC hard disk camcorder, however, I am curious about the problem you describe because I have had individuals send me files from such camcorder models.

The first thing to determine is whether you are recording at MAXIMUM quality by adjusting any controls that might exist within the camcorder itself.

Have you done so?

The reason I ask is that it seems strange to me that JVC would MAX OUT the quality setting at 8264, which appeared to be the data rate you quoted.

If the JVC is utilizing Dolby (AC-3) audio, then the video portion -- in theory -- should MAX OUT at 9800.

Have you checked that?

The second thing I would do after making sure my clips were at highest record quality would be to precisely adjust the VideoStudio 10+ project settings to match the properties of the video so that Smart Render will know to preserve the quality of the original clip as much as possible.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

By the way, the "8264" data rate is typically the MAXIMUM that you can allow for video *IF* one is working with LPCM (uncompressed) audio.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Ken Berry]

The obvious problem is that you are using video filmed using Upper Field First (your second post), but producing a DVD using Lower Field First. As TDK said in his first post, this will cause the sort of blurring in motion shots you describe, plus a host of other problems. When you edit and then (optimally) go to Share > Create Video File > DVD, make sure you select properties which also use Upper Field First. And ditto for when you burn the resulting file(s) to disc.

[DVDDoug]

First, the good news: DVDs are MPEG-2, so you can get an identical copy of your hard-drive file (in a slightly different file structure) on a DVD.

When I added transitions...

The bad news is: Not if you edit it! MPEGs are not meant to be edited. MPEG is lossy compression, and it is highly compressed (compared to DV). When you make a transition, add an overlay title, apply a color filter, etc, the MPEG has to be decoded and re-coded. This means a 2nd lossy encode step.

...and background audio,

If you get the settings right, so that the video is not re-coded, you can edit the audio without affecting the video.

You cannot totally eliminate the quality loss. As noted above, using a high bitrate will help. And as you've noticed, some video editors handle MPEG better than others. I now use a special-purpose MPEG editor from Womble (~ $100 USD), and the results are much better. (I still use Ulead to make DVDs.) Besides better transitions, all of my "lip-sync" and crashing problems are gone too.

[mkropatsch@hotmail.com]

The Camcorder is recording at DVD quality (just below the highest). As I replied earlier, the video is great using Cyberlink to DVD or Cyberlink to MPEG and then using VS 9 to DVD. It appears to be a VS 10+ issue, since VS 9 works well.

On the second project I was sure to have all setting identical to the video file. VS 10+ produced the same poor result.

[heinz-oz]

The Camcorder is recording at DVD quality (just below the highest). As I replied earlier, the video is great using Cyberlink to DVD or Cyberlink to MPEG and then using VS 9 to DVD. It appears to be a VS 10+ issue, since VS 9 works well.

On the second project I was sure to have all setting identical to the video file. VS 10+ produced the same poor result.

The trouble is, you are not listening. Your camera records in DVD quality but a much lower file size than what editable DV-AVI would be. The footage is aready compressed. As long as you just transfer it accross to DVD, the quality will be just about the same. The trouble starts when you edit. In mpeg compression not every frame holds the full picture information, only I farmes do, intermediate B and P frames only hold data that has changed since the previous I frame. Depending on your GOP structure, there could be any number of frames with incomplete picture data. If you cut inside a GOP (not at an I frame) or have transitions start or stop inside a GOP the whole thing can get corrupted. However, since original file data has now changed, an NLE editing program like VS needs to render a new file out of that. That requires a decoding/encoding process which will recompress your already compressed source files. The quality detirioration is due to the recoding.

VS 10+ may have different default settings to the ones used in VS 9.

[Jerry Jones]

The Camcorder is recording at DVD quality (just below the highest). As I replied earlier, the video is great using Cyberlink to DVD or Cyberlink to MPEG and then using VS 9 to DVD. It appears to be a VS 10+ issue, since VS 9 works well.

On the second project I was sure to have all setting identical to the video file. VS 10+ produced the same poor result.

Actually, contrary to what some have suggested, one *can* edit MPEG without much quality loss.

The Ulead software has "Smart Render" technology built-in.

What this means is that if you adjust your project settings within the Ulead software to match the properties of your MPEG clips, then the Ulead software will not re-render the MPEG, in other words, the portions of your video that you don't change -- by adding titles, transitions, or filters -- won't lose quality.

I guess I'm still confused by your reference to "8264" as your MAX data rate.

You see, that's a ceiling imposed by the use of LPCM audio.

Is your JVC camcorder recording sound using LPCM?

Not if I'm to believe the information in your original post where you stated your clips featured AC-3 audio.

Now I believe your clips probably have AC-3 audio.

Here's what I'd like you to try:

After you transfer your clips to your computer's hard drive, simply insert one of them into Ulead VideoStudio 10+.

Next, right-click on the file and get a "properties" reading.

Make careful notes of the properties of your file.

When I record MPEG video using my Panasonic DVD disc camcorder, for example, I get the following properties:

* NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
* MPEG files
* 24 Bits, 704 x 480, 29.97 fps
* Field Order B
* (DVD-NTSC), 4 : 3
* Video data rate: Variable (8800 kbps)
* Audio data rate: 256 kbps
* MPEG audio layer 2, 48 KHz, Stereo

How do your properties compare?????

The other very strange information in your initial properties description was your reference to "Lower Field" (Field A).

Most MPEG-based camcorders produce "Upper Field" (Field B) video.

I suspect your JVC clips are really "Upper Field" clips.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Ken Berry]

Actually, Jerry, you have touched a couple of raw nerves. First, there has been a sometimes heated debate on the Board since you were last active here (which I guess was the predecessor Board...) about the advisability or otherwise of editing mpeg-2. Some argue that it can't be done at all, some that it can, and some, like me, fall somewhere in the middle. I personally believe it can be edited successfully and in high quality form if the initial capture is high quality and this high level is maintained throughout the work flow; and also if only relatively straight forward editing is done. There are, of course, various situations in which people will find themselves having no practicable alternative but to capture in mpeg-2 format: capture card which cannot capture DV but only uncompressed AVI or else mpeg; mini DVD cameras and hard disc cameras to name but a few...

But the fact remains that, regardless of what either of us believe, a lot of people come to this Board with quite a few problems when they try to edit mpeg. So the jury is still out.

The other, related raw nerve is Smart Render. I happily used it all the time with VS7. However, VS8 in particular appeared to have had a host of problems, including both editing in mpeg and Smart Render. A very large number of people were suffering out of sync video and audio when they edited in mpeg -- and in fact, even some who did not -- and one of the major culprits appears to have been Smart Render. There were quite a few experiments done by a range of people, using exactly the same project and exactly the same properties, who had problems when they used Smart Render, but had no problems when they did not.

This debate goes on. Most people found that VS9's version of Smart Render seemed to work, so we thought all was right with the world again. But with VS10, the out of sync problem seems to have reappeared. Again the experiments have been done, and again it appears that users will be safer if they turn Smart Render off. And that is what we recommend if they come here with that category of problem...

I am not saying any of this is definitive. As I noted at the outset, there are some people who can happily edit in mpeg and some who happily use Smart Render successfully. But for those who are having problems, we tend to recommend they find an alternative to too much editing of mpeg-2 if at all possible. And if they are having sync problems in particular, they stop using Smart Render.