Converting a wmv PAL file to NTSC

maxfrost01 · Post by **maxfrost01** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:44 pm

I have a number of wmv files which were created using MovieMaker. I then burned them to DVD using VS9. The DVDs were PAL and the wmv file settings reflected this (640 x 480; 25 fps). No problem so far - really pleased with the results.
Then my father-in-law arrived from the States.
So impressed was he with the DVDs that he's asked for copies.
So here comes the question:
How can I get from wmv files (which were created for PAL) to NTSC DVDs?

THoff · Post by **THoff** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:52 pm

If the DVDs still contain WMV files, they cannot be played on a standalone player unless it is one of the rare devices that support WMV playback.

So if the DVDs are to be use on a computer, the framerate doesn't matter -- it is only applicable to display on TVs.

If I misunderstood anything, please let me know.

maxfrost01 · Post by **maxfrost01** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:15 pm

I think you misunderstood!

My father-in-law wants NTSC DVDs that he can play in the States (I am in the UK) on his DVD player.

What I currently have are wmv files that were prepared prior to burning PAL DVDs. He does NOT want to play PAL DVDs on a computer - being American he has a big widescreen TV that he wants to use!

THoff · Post by **THoff** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:37 pm

The safest thing to do is to convert each of the WMV files to an NTSC-compliant MPEG2 file, and then add them to a new, empty NTSC DVD project. You can use the Batch Convert feature to do the conversion.

Videostudio will reduce the vertical resolution to 480 lines, but it will also need to conjure up 4.97 extra frames of video per second. It can and will do this, but it is not as high-quality and smooth as starting out with 29.97 frames of video per second.

maxfrost01 · Post by **maxfrost01** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:41 am

Sounds like the way to go. I'll try that - many thanks.

A point of interest. Given the high possibility of further requests from my US-based father-in-law and therefore a possible need to burn DVDs in PAL and in NTSC, would it be smarter to create in NTSC and then convert to PAL rather than visa-versa? I guess it's easier to drop fps than it is to create them?

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:00 am

I would imagine that would depend on the source of your video. If you are in the UK and capturing from a PAL video camera, then the source material will be PAL, and will need to be converted one way or the other at some stage.

Post by **lancecarr** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:14 am

I have to do this all the time for my parents in Taiwan, my cam is PAL.
I ALWAYS convert at the DV AVI stage.
The conversion of 25fps to 29.97fps causes a little jump every second when VS "conjures up" 4.97fps to make the conversion. The diffent frame size is really no particular problem. Whether the program has to drop or create frames makes no real difference, both cause problems because the frames available to create from are incomplete. Remember the footage is interlaced so if VS is trying to create 4.97 frames for a second of video it can only use what is available which are "incomplete" interlaced frames. Even if you now have a "Frame Based" video the program will still have trouble trying to create from those. What you end up with is excessive "combing" or "macroblocks" or "ghosting."
I have tried just about everything on the market including Procoder and some other top end programs. The bottom line is that VS does a good job at the level of DV avi footage.
It does an ok job if you are converting at the MPEG level but the jumpyness gets accentuated by the compression. You CAN activate the "Advanced" section of the MPEG2 encoder and adjust that to get a reasonable result.
If you want perfection it costs about $150.00 and it is called "Pure Motion DV Conveter." It ONLY converts DV avi from PAL to NTSC or vice versa but it does it PERFECTLY. After using that you can then use VS to create the MPEG2 for burning to an NTSC DVD.

maxfrost01 · Post by **maxfrost01** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:13 pm

Ken/Lance - really appreciate your help with this.

One last question.........what I have is a wmv file and Lance, you're saying that the way to go is to start from an AVI file. Is that the same thing or do I need to convert the wmv file to AVI?

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:56 pm

They most definitely are NOT the same. That is why I made the point of mentioning the source of your video in my earlier post. Where are they coming from? If you are filming on a mini-DV digital video camera, then you absolutely MUST capture them in DV/AVI format over a firewire connection, and if your computer does not have a Firewire connection, then it does not cost must to buy a Firewire card these days.

Uncompressed AVI produces huge files, though -- about 65GB for one hour. DV/AVI was a special version of this format produced to copy exactly the format used in the mini-DV camera. It is slightly compressed, but still produces large files (13 GB per hour). But they are of the highest quality.

WMV, on the other hand, is a heavily compressed format developed by Microsoft as a competitor to mpeg-4 -- another highly compressed format. Both WMV and mpeg-4 are capable of producing quite small, but still high quality video. But both can cause problems when you are trying to edit them. You won't have such problems if you capture in DV/AVI format, edit in DV/AVI format, and only then go to Share > Create Video File > DVD, and produce a DVD-compatible mpeg-2 file which you can burn to disc.

Windows Movie Maker can capture in only two formats: DV/AVI, if your source is a mini-DV digital video camera, or WMV. So, as I say, if you have a mini-DV camera, ALWAYS capture DV/AVI format.

And I would add that you most definitely should NOT try converting WMV to AVI. That would definitely be like trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear!

To make a DVD, you have to have DVD-compatible mpeg-2 files, and I presume you had already converted your WMV to that since you have successfully burned PAL DVDs using them. Stick to that, only you will this time be converting them to NTSC DVD-compatible mpeg-2 files...

Post by **lancecarr** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:01 am

Ken said it all.

maxfrost01 · Post by **maxfrost01** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:10 am

Uh-oh, I really don't like where this thread is heading...............

The files I'm referring to were originally shot on a DCR-PC3E which uses mini-DV. I captured them using a firewire cable BUT took the MovieMaker 'recommended' option which I now realise gave me wmv files. I just took another look in MovieMaker and can now see the DV/AVI option. Blast!

So what I've done is work happily away (for hours) editing these wmv files in MovieMaker and finally burning them to a DVD using VS9. I kept a copy of the final edited film on my hard drive but this is a wmv file too.

Question is, how much better would my final production have been if I had worked in DV/AVI? What are we talking here? How much quality do you think I have lost given the route I sadly and unwittingly took?

One other point. Ken, I'm amazed by the size of the DV/AVI files. I'm sure you're right but doesn't that put the files size up there alongside HD files?

As ever, really appreciate your help and support. I'm learning all the time (as you may have figured).

Post by **lancecarr** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:14 am

"Question is, how much better would my final production have been if I had worked in DV/AVI? What are we talking here? How much quality do you think I have lost given the route I sadly and unwittingly took?"

I'm a big believer in moving forward and not dwelling too heavily on the past! That way we don't have to discuss how much quality you lost...which was a LOT!!!!

maxfrost01 · Post by **maxfrost01** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:35 pm

The saga continues.........

So I took the good advice of THoff:

[quote="THoff"]The safest thing to do is to convert each of the WMV files to an NTSC-compliant MPEG2 file, and then add them to a new, empty NTSC DVD project. You can use the Batch Convert feature to do the conversion.

and it appeared to work like a dream. I then dragged the new mpeg file into the timeline (at the question "Change Project Settings to match clip?" I answered "Yes") and all looked good. Project Properties suggested I was indeed creating an NTSC video (fps 29.970; 720 x 480). I went to "Share" and burned the DVD.

Now here's the strange thing: The DVD works! It plays perfectly! And that's what's strange because I'm playing what should be an NTSC DVD on PAL devices (Sony Playstation, Panasonic DVD Player - both purchased in the UK). Maybe, just maybe, these PAL devices can play NTSC too but I doubt that.

Question: How can I double check that the DVD I've burnt is indeed NTSC?

My American father-in-law flies back to the States tomorrow and wants to take the DVD with him. One obvious way to check will be for him to try the DVD when he arrives Stateside but that seems a bit late!

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:10 pm

Most if not all new UK equipment can play back a pseudo NTSC signal.
Some and it's increasing new US equipment can pay a pseudo PAL signal.

I'm not suprised you can watch your NTSC dvd.

Look at the properties of the mpeg file, it should be 720x480 and 29.97 fps.

NTSC also differs in chrominance and luminance, which is the way colour/contrast etc is handled, which is why older sets which can't play back a pseudo ntsc signal play it in black and white.

maxfrost01 · Post by **maxfrost01** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:34 pm

Graham,

Thanks for the reply. I need a bit more information.

I tried to check the properties of the mpeg file by right clicking on the icon but this tells me nothing about fps etc. How else can I check this?

And besides, this is checking the file BEFORE burning the DVD - how can I check what has actually been burned? Is there a way?

Max