MPEG2 Edit Crashes VS10+

McVid · Post by **McVid** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:13 pm

A possible bug in VS10+ has been driving me crazy. Posts by several of you have helped me improve my work process and my videos. Thank you!

If others are having trouble with MPEGs, I found a workaround, however painful, that is at the end of this post. I posted the information below to Ulead Support with no response so far. Has anybody else found a better way around this problem?

I have been capturing all of my family videos as MPEG2s for a while. With my All-in-wonder card, I capture the analog signal from my VCR. The file format is Upper field first 720X480 variable bit rate <8000kbps.

I am trying to break them up into smaller MPEGs so I can arrange them by who is in them and make DVDs for different family members. VS10+ crashes the same on two entirely different computers when editing the files.

Steps taken:
1. Bring large file in and adjust per sticky procedure.
2. Select and split by scene with sensitivity set at 27.
3. Save the file.
4. Select each clip and choose Save Trimmed Video.
5. Some save fine, while VS10 crashes on others.
-a. If any crash the project won't create final file either.
-b. If clip crashes workaround procedure is:
--1. Call file back up.
--2. Select clip that crashed VS10+.
--3. Advance one frame.
--4. Reset start position to this frame. (ie Select [)
--5. Save file.
--6. Save Trimmed Video again.
--7. If VS10+ crashes again, repeat the procedure.
Note: I have never had to repeat the procedure more than 3 times before I was able to save the clip. I am guessing VS10+ gets a new reference frame in the MPEG file and gets past the bug.

TDK1044 · Post by **TDK1044** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:24 pm

Most of the ATI AIW cards can capture using the AVI format. I'd capture and edit as AVI and only convert to MPEG2 to burn to Disk. Your issue feels like MPEG2 corruption.

Post by **Ron P.** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:28 pm

Hi McVid,

By what you describe it does not appear to be a bug. It seems like you have a corrupt MPEG file, and your procedure to correct it is removing the corruption of the file.

If you are haveing problems with editing MPEG2, then I would recommend trying to capture to DV (avi), edit, the create MPEG-2 DVD Compliant video files. I think you would have a much higher success rate. Are you able to capture to DV?

***EDIT**
slow typing today..

Ron P.

McVid · Post by **McVid** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:38 pm

Thanks for responding so quickly. I would hate to redo the 100s of hours of video I have collected in MPEG-2 format, however.

I don't know if it is MPEG corruption. If it is, then Ulead may be able to build in a simple fix for it, since I can work around the problem.

Two things make me wonder about the corruption idea.
1. When I used the VS9 Trial, I didn't experience the same problem.
2. Adjusting the initial frame solved the problem for the entire clip which has 10s of thousands of frames. Why doesn't it crash somewhere else in the clip?

rpeyton · Post by **rpeyton** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:42 pm

I have had the same problem. I joined this forum just to see what everyone has been saying...I import via firewire from my video carmera into mpeg. Then I edit the render to mpeg. The ver10esd will not crash but if the project files is 20 min long it will only do the firs 6 or 3 min of the video the rest of the video is just black. I use the same source file in ver 9 and re edit and it works fine. No problems. I also us 2 diffrent pc and have the same problem in 10 on both with same file. One crazy thing that has happen if the video render fine in 10 I then use workshop to create a dvd and it will crash on the audio portion of that file when processing. WHen I rerender it in 9 The audio is now gone. So I split the audio in 10 and import it in 9 and it works fine when render in 9...I think there is a bug that needs to be addressed. Any one else have this problem?

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:08 am

rpeyton -- It's only a bug if a wide variety of people have the same problem and it can be simulated on a wide variety of computers. I for one don't have this problem with VS10+, or VS9 (or VS7 and 8 for that matter). And I don't work for Ulead either!!

Now what I do believe continues to be a bug with all of these versions of Video Studio is its seeming inability to consistently be able to capture from a mini DV digital video camera via Firewire direct to mpeg-2 as you have done with mixed success. Some people can do it consistently, others can't do it at all, and others have mixed results, not only between different versions of VS but also using the same program on different projects. I personally don't even try, even though I *think* my computer is up to it.

That does not mean I don't ever capture direct to mpeg-2. In some circumstances, people have no choice -- e.g. my TV capture card only allows me to capture uncompressed AVI (which is too huge) or else mpeg. And the result with the latter is both successful and good quality. Other people have mini DVD or hard disc or even HD cameras which use mpeg-2 as their native format.

But if you have a mini DV camera and Firewire connections on your computer, the only *consistent* way of capturing video appears to be in DV format. You then do your editing in DV format, and only when you are satisfied that everything is done, do you go to Share > Create Video File > DVD and convert it to DVD-compatible mpeg-2 format. And then when you have checked that that too is OK, then in a separate step, you go to Share > Create Disc > DVD, and burn that mpeg-2 to disc.

And here endeth the lesson!!

McVid · Post by **McVid** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:18 am

So Ken, or others of you who have more experience than I do. Have any of you used Split by Scene on a large MPEG2 file -- getting 20 scenes or so with no problems?

The errors I experience do appear to be with about 1 in 4 of the resulting scenes.

I don't have another way to find out if my MPEG2 files are somehow corrupted since they play absolutely fine and I didn't have this problem in VS6 or VS9 Trial. I was splitting my videos successfully in VS6 but I bought VS10+ for the split by scene and Ad-zapper features. In VS6 I was splitting the video myself with no problems.

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:29 am

Ken Berry wrote:rpeyton -- It's only a bug if a wide variety of people have the same problem and it can be simulated on a wide variety of computers. I for one don't have this problem with VS10+, or VS9 (or VS7 and 8 for that matter). And I don't work for Ulead either!!
And here endeth the lesson!!

Twaddle!

A Bug is an unintended error in a program/application. Just because you don't experience it on your PC does not stop it from being a bug - and is of little comfort to someone else who is experiencing it!

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:19 am

Yes, McVid -- I regularly use split by scene on fairly large mpeg-2 files after they have been captured (and indeed on DV captures while the capture is occurring). I tend to leave the sensitivity level at around 70%, however, rather than down around your figure of 27. My method, though, of course, produces a great number of shorter scenes.

I also use your method of then trimming those of these short scenes which need it, and use Save Trimmed Video for each (because I don't like the way VS9 and 10 handle the 'virtual' separate files which are created by split-by-scene. Though cut frame-perfect from my point of view, they appear to carry artifacts from an adjacent scene when I move them far from their original location on the timeline. These artifacts are noticeable in transitions. But I don't call this a bug in the program since no one else but me seems to have this problem -- at least no one else seems to have mentioned it on this Board. I just ascribe it to being a peculiarity of my system.)

However, apart from the difference in the sensitvity rate, I can't think of any good reason why you would necessarily be producing corrupt files either...

Lastindependent -- I don't dispute your notion of a bug. But if it is an unintended error in the programming, then presumably a lot of people will experience it and it will affect a wide variety of computers. One person reporting a peculiar behaviour or problem on a single, computer with its own unique architecture of both hardware and software, does not necessarily indicate a programming error (bug) in the software in question. That is the point I was trying to make.

Post by **Ron P.** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:23 am

Lastindependent wrote:
Ken Berry wrote:rpeyton -- It's only a bug if a wide variety of people have the same problem and it can be simulated on a wide variety of computers. I for one don't have this problem with VS10+, or VS9 (or VS7 and 8 for that matter). And I don't work for Ulead either!!
And here endeth the lesson!!
Twaddle!

A Bug is an unintended error in a program/application. Just because you don't experience it on your PC does not stop it from being a bug - and is of little comfort to someone else who is experiencing it!

Lastindependent,

I think you missed Ken's whole point. He is not claiming that just because he doesn't experience the problem it isn't a bug. He is pointing that it needs to be reproduced consistantly, and occurs to numerous people to be considered a bug. Since it may occur to some people sometimes, and yet not to others at all, would eliminate this from being a bug in the software.

I too do not experience this problem, and I have pushed the program to extremes. If it were a bug I would think it would have reared it's head.

Ron P.

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:30 am

McVid,
I have not experienced your problem with versions 9 or 10+.

I did capture a section of corrupt video (mpeg2) from an analog camcorder with version 8. I did a "binary search" of the clips in the project (repeatedly throwing out half the video clips from the project...) until I found the problem clip. When this clip was eliminated from the original project, it worked fine.

Since that time I have modified my workflow by only doing only virtual cuts with either the scissors control or the Multi-trim control. I eliminate large goofs (e.g., pictures of the inside of my camera bag) by truncating the capture file at those points and starting capture again after good video resumes. I don't ever let the program Split by Scene because I find that I seldom want that many cuts and often don't agree with the program's choice of what constitutes a scene change.

My experience has been excellent with this procedure, although I am not sure if newer versions of Video Studio were more bug-free or that virtual cuts actually cause fewer problems than real cuts (Save Trimmed Video control).

You could provide some evidence on this later point if you can recreate one of your projects from the original capture files, substututing virtual for real cuts (and avoid split by scene). It's worth a try and would add to the knowledge base of this forum.

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:59 am

Lastindependent wrote:Twaddle!

A Bug is an unintended error in a program/application. Just because you don't experience it on your PC does not stop it from being a bug - and is of little comfort to someone else who is experiencing it!

The Biggest bug of all (also unaffected by all of the available anti-virus programs) is somewhere in the region of 6' tall and weighs somewhere in the region of 180 pounds. This bug usually employs a mouse to do its dirty work but has on occaisions been known to press the dreaded destruct button.

McVid · Post by **McVid** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:19 pm

Thanks again for your help and suggestions. I have an awful lot of time invested in my MPEG2 files.

Today I performed a test of one of my video files. Now I am convinced that there is problem (or bug

) with VS10+ and some MPEG2 files.

I edited the same file in VS10+ and VS6. The Save trimmed video worked fine in VS6 but VS10+ crashed from the very same frame. Interestingly enough VS10+ crashed the same whether I chose the clips by hand or with Split by Scene.

The clip that crashed on the save had no apparent corruption inside it. However, there were a few black frames before it -- which often happens with our camcorder when it is turned off without turning off Record first.

If black frames are corruption, I have lots of it since we are all amateurs using our camcorder. Unfortunately VS10+ seems to be unable to handle the same problem that didn't even cause VS6 to slow down.

For me and my house VS10+ has a big bug. (It shouldn't crash even if the file has a problem.) If I can view it frame by frame, it seems to me that VS10+ should be able to render it -- expecially when VS6 can render it.

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:35 am

McVid
The problems you mention all involve editing MPEG files. whilst I realise there are a few users who successfully edit MPEG files it has been reported here and elsewhere that editing MPEG files is prone to error due to the nature of the MPEG format.

Have you tried to capture your files in DV (AVI) format and if so do you still have this problem when working with the DV files?

I tend to use Womble if I have to edit MPEG files and then output from Womble the edited file into DVD Compliant MPEG2 Format which I then open with one of my Ulead products for the purpose of DVD authoring.

A lot depends upon your desire to have an "All in one" video editing solution.
I tend to capture with one software - from my camcorder with MediaStudio 8,
From my TV card with WinTV2000. Edit DV in either VideoStudio or MediaStudio dependant upon the tasks I am performing. Edit MPEGs with Womble. I then use DVD Workshop for Authoring.

Throw in PhotoImpact for my home made DVD Menu templates, Audacity for Sound editing, Windows Movie maker for end credits, PhotoImpact and/or Adobe Photoshop or Adobe Photoshop elements for Still Image adjustments, Cool 3D Production Studio for Title or Opening Sequences.

Alternatively grit your teeth and stick to one product.

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:03 am

McVid,
I think that you have correctly identified the source of the problem: If you have powered off the camcorder during a recording session, there is probably no way for the electronics to complete the video frame that is currently being processed. If this is the case, I doubt that capturing in any other format will improve the situation.

If you can't remove the bad frames in VS10, you might try Virtual Dub (Mpeg2), which is not very user-friendly, but offers quite a few tools for examining and tweaking indvidual frames. Download free copy at http://fcchandler.home.comcast.net/stable/

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