MSP8 is Rubbish!!!!!!!!

[Ron P.]

Yes it is rather curious that it has been a couple of days since his post, and VG has yet to respond I've only seen a couple of other similar posters here, however once they realized that they could get help and solutions were available, they posted back..

I'd say wait and see, but could be a long wait...

Ron P.

[Video_guy]

Hi Guys,

Sorry for not getting back sooner, but I have had no internet accses over the weekend due to my ISP provider updating there server. I'd like to thank devil for pointing me in the right direction and I DID follow your advice and up till now all seems well, The ultimate test will be in a couple of weeks time when I have another wedding video to film and edit.
I have no interest nor the time or the inteligence to disrupt forums, but sometimes you must understand that this can be a good place to let of steam when things don't go to plan. My PC was custom made to work with MSP8 so i know it is more than capable. Also not all the people that use this forum are as technically minded and computer savvy as most of you and sometimes a lot of the things that people talk about go's over my head, so before you start to judge me and undermine me, remember this is a forum and sometimes what people write in here should not be taken as gosple. I really do like using MSP and started from MSP6 so i'm not about to abandon ship just yet.

[Devil]

OK, VG, I'm sorry if you feel disparaged by my remarks and am delighted we have started to put you on the right path. Believe me, MSP8.1 is great - and stable.

[Gra]

Glad to hear that you're back on-line and sorting things out. On the one occasion MSP crashed big time to me, I found bashing my head against a brick wall worked, although once it was out of my system (and the guys here helped me solve the problem) I had one hell of a headache!

[Primekid]

That's it i've had enough, i'm going to go back to using MSP7. I used to love editing with msp7 and never, NEVER had any problems. But since upgrading to MSP8 even the smallest of projects is a chore, i'm talkng little 1-2 minuet clips of video editing very simply, but MSP8, just can't handle this without crashing and me loosing all my work, it's absolutely garbage. Msp7 would handle full length wedding videows with all the effects and tacky trasitions and titling, moving paths & video effects I could throw at it, and laff in my face and say " is that the best you can do" i would not even consider trying anything so risky on msp8, it just can't call itself a video editing program, because it fails and lets me down every time i use it......... I Want my money bacK !!!!!!!!!!

Chris

I agree with you.

I have had the same problems. MSP7 was much more stable. MSP8 looks good on paper but when you go to actually use it....Peeyeew!!

After half a year, trying all the suggested fixes across the board, from an MSP8 reinstall, to a new SATA hard drive with a fresh windows install, patches, Service packs, everything across the board, etc. Nothing! There are still frequent crashes. Still projects become corrupt. There is definitely no justification for the price of the software.

Of course you can't say such things in these forums, because that is blasphemy. It's never the products short comings; it's always the user and his PC. All you usually get is some sarcasm, condescension, and a lecture about your pc. It seems that most people in these forums like to presume that anyone having a problem like the software crashing is simply a neophyte to PCs and video. Rarely do you find someone who actually helps. But then, what can you expect from a user forum?

The ultimate reality that some of these Ivory Tower forum posters will never concede is that the software is down right buggy. It is not as stable as one would expect and certainly not stable enough to consider using for any real world practical purposes. In my opinion it is not even stable enough to sell on the open market, I know I certainly would not sell a product with this level of defects.

No it is not just the system one is using. No software, regardless of the application, should ever be expected to be this sensitive to the computer system on which it is installed. No software, regardless of the price and/or comparison to that of a true professional level counterpart, should be placed on the market for the unsuspecting public to invest their hard earned money to purchase. The software simply is too sensitive, too unstable, and not well enough supported. Ulead is not the only company in the world writing software for IBM PC compatibles. The are many, many companies writing software for PC compatibles and they all have to deal with the same issues in regards to the endless combinations of PC configurations and customizations. Yet, I have never in my life seen the extent of errors and problems on any one piece of software or collection of software as what appears in these forums. I know right now the Ivory Tower forum posters in clinching there cheeks together wanting to respond, “But video editing software is very, very complicated…..and….and…. the other software isn’t complicated at all…and….and…you can’t find real professional editing video for these prices anywhere!!!” -- Is video editing and manipulation on pc a complicated application for which to produce software? Yes it is. Are video applications software demanding on a pc? Yes they are. Does that excuse a piece of software for its own instability, sensitivity, and failure to perform the tasks as advertised by the manufacturer? NO IT DOES NOT! Is a piece of software as sensitive and unstable as Ulead's video applications have any justification for using the word ‘Professional’ to describe the software they are selling, regardless of any price comparisons. Not at all! Should the general public be duped out of their hard earned money for software that doesn’t perform as advertised just because they are expected to understand that video editing software and the like are complicated and difficult to produce? Not by any stretch of the imagination!

The amount of complaints reported in these forums is not an accident, it is a result. It is a result of software not performing in the manner in which it is advertised. There is a reason why Ulead’s software has not appeared on store shelves for years and can only be bought online. That reason is consumer demand. There was and still is a growing demand for video editing software by the general public, both by avid video enthusiasts and by those that want to use these features casually. However, Ulead has already sewn its seed of reputation. When people buy software and it doesn’t perform as advertised they loose confidence in the manufacture and tend to avoid said manufacturer. Thus who do we see on store shelve these days? Roxio, Pinnacle, and others like them. Now, granted the software features and claims do not presume to do anything close to that which is promised by Ulead software, but perhaps there is a reason they do not. Perhaps the manufactures understand the limitations and choose not to attempt to sell to the public that which cannot be promised and might ruin their reputation. Perhaps that’s why they are still on store shelves and Ulead is no longer. Perhaps they choose not to sell software that is not ready to be marketed. Perhaps Ulead should take some time to reconsider the path they are on before they create their own demise even further. Either they should withdraw many of the claims to the performance capabilities as advertised or they should buckle down and start looking into finding some real hardcore low level programmers. Not some slicksters than know how to paint a pretty screen, but some real machine level programmers that can get their systems in order and form a basis from which stability can be founded. If not, then here is some other general manufacturing advice that should apply to any company. Concentrate on getting your current version software to perform properly and as advertised first, then worry about working on the next version.

In the end, consumer demand will determine Ulead’s continued existence. The Ivory Tower forum posters can list ‘this pc system works well with Ulead’ and ‘that pc system works well with Ulead’ all they want. The general public is going to go with what they see in the stores. Those of us that build our own computers are going to go with components that we know to be the most compatible, reliable, and stable. I don’t think anyone, in the general public or computer professionals, are ever going to make a hardware purchase on the basis of one software manufacturer’s software. The general public is where the majority of the money is to be made when it comes to marketing a product. The general public is not interested in techno babble. They are not interested in the technical reasons why the software they just bought keeps crashing. The general public isn’t going to run out and purchase a brand new computer system just to get one application to work properly and the general public is not independently wealthy or in a financial position to do so as it would appear that some of our Ivory Tower forum posters would like to believe. The general public is not going to keep buying software from a manufacturer that doesn’t “make their product work”. The general public will spread the word about such a manufacturer. The general public will settle for the product with lesser features just so long as it works.

I would like to see Ulead prosper, I would like to see the software perform immaculately. I hope that one day they do but open your eyes. Look at the endless posts of problems and endless responses putting the blame on the consumer. This is not how a software title is going to survive. This is not a sign that Ulead is going to make it in this competitive world.

[sjj1805]

After half a year, trying all the suggested fixes across the board, from an MSP8 reinstall, to a new SATA hard drive with a fresh windows install, patches, Service packs, everything across the board, etc. Nothing! There are still frequent crashes. Still projects become corrupt. There is definitely no justification for the price of the software.

OK you've done a fresh Windows Install. Now would that be an 'Upgrade Install' - in other words on top of your current Windows System, or did you format the Hard Drive and Start from Scratch. An upgrade Installation - also used to repair a faulty Windows System. This is not always effective in removing whatever was causing you to have problems in the first place.

A new Hard Drive can be faulty. It happened to me recently. I bought a brand new 300GB Hard Drive from a well known UK Computer Store and discovered that it had bad blocks. I ended up taking it back and exchanging it. Other members of this forum have reported similar experiences with defective brand new RAM chips.

Your copy of MediaStudio 8 - boxed or downloaded? if its boxed you may have a faulty disc. If its downloaded that itself could be corrupted.

As for Ivory Tower Forum Members - there aren't any, we are all customers of Ulead like yourself. The purpose of any User forum is for users to pool their experiences. If a member has a problem and posts it on the forum, the chances are that another member also had that same problem and is able to offer the solution that worked for them.

The amount of complaints reported in these forums is not an accident,
It is an unfortunate fact of life that anyone who receives what that person percieves to be 'bad service' will tell a dozen or so other people about it. When a person receives what has been percieved to be 'good service' they tell very few (if any) people about it. Many users also only come to these forums to seek help not to offer solutions.

In some respects we are spoilt today. We have the Internet and these user forums and so help is at hand.
When I bought my very first computer - a Dragon 32 - with a massive 32 kilobytes of RAM. Hard Drives didn't exist let alone floppy disks. We had to hook up a tape recorder to the computer to save/load anything.
There certainly wasn't any internet and Windows hadn't been invented yet - Bill Gates was still at school.

In those days we had to work things out by ourselves. The only chance of any help was by writing to a computer magazine in the hope that the Editors considered your problem important enough to get it published in next months magazine.

[Primekid]

After half a year, trying all the suggested fixes across the board, from an MSP8 reinstall, to a new SATA hard drive with a fresh windows install, patches, Service packs, everything across the board, etc. Nothing! There are still frequent crashes. Still projects become corrupt. There is definitely no justification for the price of the software.

OK you've done a fresh Windows Install. Now would that be an 'Upgrade Install' - in other words on top of your current Windows System, or did you format the Hard Drive and Start from Scratch. An upgrade Installation - also used to repair a faulty Windows System. This is not always effective in removing whatever was causing you to have problems in the first place.

You sir are one of the few in these forums that actually do make a concerted effort to help.

I, like many others who come to these forums, am not a neophyte to computers. I too have experience from before the days of the internet, BBSes, 300 baud modems, and with using the cassette tape for data storage.

These forums are not the only forums that I have had the opportunity to frequent. I am quite aware of the purpose of such a forum. My experience with this particular forum is that there are most indeed Ivory Tower forum posters. By Ivory Tower posters, I refer to those who dismiss the significance of the money consumers spend on the purchase of the product, to those who write responses with a superiority attitude. Also to those who seem to view the customer from a position of higher wealth and imply that the consumer has money to throw around to repeatedly buy new hardware or pc systems in an attempt to satisfy one piece of software.

I stand by my statements and no amount of rationalization is going to make the end consumer of a product a loyal customer. It will be the product that has to prove itself.

[heinz-oz]

After half a year, trying all the suggested fixes across the board, from an MSP8 reinstall, to a new SATA hard drive with a fresh windows install, patches, Service packs, everything across the board, etc. Nothing! There are still frequent crashes. Still projects become corrupt. There is definitely no justification for the price of the software.

OK you've done a fresh Windows Install. Now would that be an 'Upgrade Install' - in other words on top of your current Windows System, or did you format the Hard Drive and Start from Scratch. An upgrade Installation - also used to repair a faulty Windows System. This is not always effective in removing whatever was causing you to have problems in the first place.

You sir are one of the few in these forums that actually do make a concerted effort to help.

I, like many others who come to these forums, am not a neophyte to computers. I too have experience from before the days of the internet, BBSes, 300 baud modems, and with using the cassette tape for data storage.

These forums are not the only forums that I have had the opportunity to frequent. I am quite aware of the purpose of such a forum. My experience with this particular forum is that there are most indeed Ivory Tower forum posters. By Ivory Tower posters, I refer to those who dismiss the significance of the money consumers spend on the purchase of the product, to those who write responses with a superiority attitude. Also to those who seem to view the customer from a position of higher wealth and imply that the consumer has money to throw around to repeatedly buy new hardware or pc systems in an attempt to satisfy one piece of software.

I stand by my statements and no amount of rationalization is going to make the end consumer of a product a loyal customer. It will be the product that has to prove itself.

By the same token, the way you shout into the forrest determines the echo you get. Did you ever receive any meaningful help from any of the forums you had the oportunity to frequent? If you did, are you sure that wasn't just a fluke?

Let me put you straight on one more thing: None of us here, volonteering our spare time to help people like yourself, look at you as being a customer. You know why? We don't have any financial gain from whatever software to chose to waste your money on. We are just users of this software who have chosen to share our limited experience with newbees like you.

You have been ranting along for quite a while now without giving us anything to base meaningfull advice on.

If you had wasted half as much time in typing the symptoms of your problems and the details of your system as you have spent on attacking your "arch enemy", the ivory tower poster, we might actually have gotten somewhere.

The way you are going, Sir, is to kill the last bit of good will anyone could muster towards you.

You have manged a miserly 19 posts in your "half year of trying" all the suggested fixes to your problem with MSP 8. More than half (didn't bother to read all your posts) are tirades like your last post. You don't seem to have tried too hard, have you?

[Primekid]

By the same token, the way you shout into the forrest determines the echo you get. Did you ever receive any meaningful help from any of the forums you had the oportunity to frequent? If you did, are you sure that wasn't just a fluke?

Let me put you straight on one more thing: None of us here, volonteering our spare time to help people like yourself, look at you as being a customer. You know why? We don't have any financial gain from whatever software to chose to waste your money on. We are just users of this software who have chosen to share our limited experience with newbees like you.

You have been ranting along for quite a while now without giving us anything to base meaningfull advice on.

If you had wasted half as much time in typing the symptoms of your problems and the details of your system as you have spent on attacking your "arch enemy", the ivory tower poster, we might actually have gotten somewhere.

The way you are going, Sir, is to kill the last bit of good will anyone could muster towards you.

You have manged a miserly 19 posts in your "half year of trying" all the suggested fixes to your problem with MSP 8. More than half (didn't bother to read all your posts) are tirades like your last post. You don't seem to have tried too hard, have you?

Thank you so much for your comments.

I'm sure you have laid waste to every point in my post.

Your reply is only another perfect example of what I stated.

The truth still remains. The facts are what they are. I did not post the plethora of posts on these forums. They come from many others besides just me. No amount of denial will change it. It is not I that bring them here; it is the failure of software to operate. You can crush truth down to earth, but crushed or not the truth is still the truth. It must be all too accurate to invoke such strong reaction

It is those like yourself that I refer too in regards to superiority complexes, arrogance. I suppose anyone that comes to these forums should feel appreciative to know that when they are condescended to and belittled that they can rest in comfort knowing that it was all done free of charge as a courtesy of a volunteer.

As far as shouting into the forest, I think the thousands plus that I have put into Ulead earns me the right to complain. Besides, if it were not for condescending, self-righteous morons like yourself, I would never have had the need to write a post to point out were you are remiss. For that matter if you don’t like the fact that I am exercising the right to complain, you can simply piss off!

[neonbob]

Ah yes... tensions are high... welcome to the wonderful world of video editing!

Look... people get frustrated and it's not hard to understand why. One of the great things about this type of forum is that you can come and let loose when one of these editors fails to do what they are told (which is often), and that's what's happening here... no need to make it more then that.


PRIMEKID:
I understand your frustrations.... been there myself.

I own a fair few video editors and I use them all... not because I am a pro or I do maountains of editing... but because it's the nature of the beast. ALL of the programs are flawed in some way. Fortunetly they are flawed in different areas... so it comes down to owning more than just one program and being able use each programs' strong points to your advantage.

MSP7 is good in some areas and not in others... same as MSP8. I find MSP8 better with HD. I also have avid liquid... GREAT with HD but slow like molassas when rendering the stuff. Got about 5 other programs as well, but they're all used in different ways.

The trick to it all is is understanding where the strong points are in each of the programs and expecting NO MORE than that.

These descriptions on the side of the box as to what a program can do are about as real as EPA gasoline ratings on cars! Take 'em with a grain of salt so to speak, and you'll breath a little easier.

Wouldn't it be great if one could actually find a fault free editor? sure it would... but it ain't gonna happen!

[Primekid]

Ah yes... tensions are high... welcome to the wonderful world of video editing!

Look... people get frustrated and it's not hard to understand why. One of the great things about this type of forum is that you can come and let loose when one of these editors fails to do what they are told (which is often), and that's what's happening here... no need to make it more then that.


PRIMEKID:
I understand your frustrations.... been there myself.

I own a fair few video editors and I use them all... not because I am a pro or I do maountains of editing... but because it's the nature of the beast. ALL of the programs are flawed in some way. Fortunetly they are flawed in different areas... so it comes down to owning more than just one program and being able use each programs' strong points to your advantage.

MSP7 is good in some areas and not in others... same as MSP8. I find MSP8 better with HD. I also have avid liquid... GREAT with HD but slow like molassas when rendering the stuff. Got about 5 other programs as well, but they're all used in different ways.

The trick to it all is is understanding where the strong points are in each of the programs and expecting NO MORE than that.

These descriptions on the side of the box as to what a program can do are about as real as EPA gasoline ratings on cars! Take 'em with a grain of salt so to speak, and you'll breath a little easier.

Wouldn't it be great if one could actually find a fault free editor? sure it would... but it ain't gonna happen!

Now there is cool headed, tempered, and truthful response.

Thank you

I bet you can find one for an Apple though

[heinz-oz]

As far as shouting into the forest, I think the thousands plus that I have put into Ulead earns me the right to complain. Besides, if it were not for condescending, self-righteous morons like yourself, I would never have had the need to write a post to point out were you are remiss. For that matter if you don’t like the fact that I am exercising the right to complain, you can simply piss off!

Ditto my "friend". Nobody denies you the right to come here and post whatever you like otherwise your posts would have been edited or deleted.

So far, every user who came here for help and clearly stated what the problems were, received helpful advice if it was available. I have yet to find a post of yours where you actually ask for advice yourself.

Nobody can denie me the right to react to some "moron" in a way I deem fit either. On the contrary, sometimes I enjoy telling a moron that he is one.

I got nothing else to add but please, feel free to carry on.

[Jerry Jones]

I now use a laptop computer for video editing.

And I'm running Ulead MediaStudio Pro 8.

Now I gave Ulead MediaStudio Pro 7 -- with patches -- a thorough testing and it was (and continues to be) a stable program.

As for Ulead MediaStudio Pro 8, I believe it is a stable program... so far.

My laptop is a Gateway 7426GX with an AMD Athlon 64 processor that runs at 2.4 GHz with 1gb of ram.

Still, I feel for you.

Why?

Because my own adventures in desktop video began in the 1990s when I had the misfortune of spending $1,000 on a Pinnacle PCI board that just didn't work in my computer.

Since that time, I absolutely refuse to buy a Pinnacle product.

And now that Avid has purchased Pinnacle, I don't even want to buy an Avid product for fear I might get a product that involved the same group of people who produced that horrible PCI video board that burned me in the 1990s.

So I'm not going to even try to persuade you to feel any better about your Ulead software.

If you're ready to throw in the towel and quit, then I don't blame you.

I'd suggest the Apple Final Cut Express or Final Cut Pro NLEs because they are designed to work on Macintosh computers, which are also controlled entirely by Apple.

So there's a high probability you will not have a hardware conflict with your software if you go that route.

If you're not willing to throw in the towel, then I'd be interested to know what type of camcorders you use.

I'd also be interested to know if you've tested your RAM using a free software program called "Memtest 86."

I've done a lot of PC trouble-shooting over the years.

There can be any number of causes for the crashes and the corrupted files that you mentioned.

I've not experienced that at all... so far.

Now I'll admit I've not put MediaStudio Pro 8 through the really tough tests yet.

But I've been using it casually.

And it doesn't crash on my system.

Nor have I experienced any corrupted project files.

Within the next few weeks, I'll be putting MediaStudio Pro 8 through some really tough testing.

I worked as a consultant for Ulead for a period of one year -- from 2003 to 2004.

I no longer work for them.

I now work for a university here in Idaho where I'm a video instruction manager.

So far, the version 8 software is stable on my system.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

By the way, the Pinnacle PCI boards were so incompatible with typical retail computer systems, the company representatives had to start telling customers to buy the "workstation" models available only through special order!

The incompatibility problems were WELL KNOWN within industry circles.

I finally exchanged the first PCI board from Pinnacle with a less-expensive board by Matrox and that was how I got started using Ulead MediaStudio Pro.

I've been a happy user -- for the most part -- since 1997... going on ten years.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

I forgot to mention some of the causes of problems on PCs running Ulead software.

1. a power supply that is inadequate to handle the many components being utilized for desktop video editing;

2. bad ram (download www.memtest86.com and run the diagnostic); I've been burned numerous times by ram vendors on the Web;

3. conflicting multimedia software from other vendors; I've seen problems resulting from installation of Adobe and Sonic software.

4. issues that stem from the installation and removal of programs on the Microsoft Windows platform, which can lead to "registry" confusion.

Usually, a person using MiniDV camcorders will do okay with any of today's retail PC laptops as they're made with video editing enthusiasts in mind.

I generally discourage people from building their own computers.

I did that for several years and it was a lot of work to get everything put together correctly.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net