Archiving AVI Footage

Gra · Post by **Gra** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:22 am

Hi Guys (again)

I have a HD of 230Gb but my capture folders are now building up to around 100gig. I guess this amount of AVI files will not help my PC run smoothly and undermine efficiency when I'm editing. I'm a terrible horder and I wonder what is the best way to archive as I don't necessarilly want to lose my old project files (or do I just have to bite the bullet and delete both capture files and old project files and re-make any projects later)?

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:36 am

Since HDDs have come down in price considerably, you could invest in extra drives to store your files externally. There are inexpensive drive caddies available, which fit into a drive bay like your CD/DVD-ROM drive. A couple of extra inserts, with a large disk fitted, should tie you over for years to come.

Gorf · Post by **Gorf** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:16 am

Hard drives are probably the most reliable non-tape solution. They aren't as cheap as DVDR (here in the UK, DVDR is 3p per GB whereas HDD is 20p per GB) but you'd want two copies on DVDR, and you'd refresh those copies every 18 months or so, so as a long term backup medium they are about the same in price.

Absolutely the best backup medium is the original tapes (the "rushes"). To use these as a backup medium you'll need to have a database with tape number as an ID, a distinguishing feature a few seconds into the tape that you can use as a start point (e.g. a camera flash) and a frame-accurate record of the length of the capture. Then you can reproduce an identical copy of the captured AVI and apply it to DVPs that you archive on CDR.

troppo · Post by **troppo** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:37 am

I'm a terrible horder and I wonder what is the best way to archive

I feel the same way, and cannot bear to get rid of any old projects or captures. I am going to convert to mpeg2 dvd compliant and archive on a hdd. I agree with Gorf, the best way is on the tapes, but unfortunately I don't have enough tapes.

Gra · Post by **Gra** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:20 pm

Thanks, guys, for your helpful ideas. The extra HDD may be the way forward (making a frames exact database may involve me in more work than I have time for) but Troppo's idea of converting to mpeg2 dvd may also be a quick way to go.

daniel · Post by **daniel** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:08 pm

Whatever option you select, the key to long term archiving is regular transfer to new medium when technology evolves.

A storage on tape is probably the worst since it would require a working miniDV device and a firewire interface to play them back. Will you find that in 5 years?
The hard disk is also subject to it's interface. IDE and EIDE is dying, and there's no proof SCSI, SATA will last.
The best for compatibility seems to be the DVD, still compatible with both the next generation of players (BlueRay and HD DVD). DVDR data on average quality disks will last 5 years and you can bet on 10 if you have 2 copies.
DVDRW will need to be copied (even on themselves) to cope with data decay about every 2-3 years.

Think now: your grand-father and your father gave you their collection of archives. Some on 1/8th inch tape reels, the rest on 8mm film, 8-track cartridges and 5-inch computer disks. How many people would be able to use that ? Heck I'd have to go to the basement to collect my 33rpm vinyl disks player...

Thus the only answer is: remember to copy them while you still have the equipment on the most current medium every 5 years AT MOST.

It also helps with storage space. When you copy your CD songs to DVD and later your DV tapes to HDDVD dual layer, you gain lots of room for new material (taking up much more space since it's HD etc).
I have several hundreds of floppy discs on one single-side DVD.
It really cleans up the shelves. Not to mention my latest PC doesn't have a floppy drive :-)

troppo · Post by **troppo** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:15 am

A storage on tape is probably the worst since it would require a working miniDV device and a firewire interface to play them back. Will you find that in 5 years?

I disagree.
I am quite confident that I will be able to buy and use DV tapes in 5 years time.
But you are right in saying to keep your backups relevant to the technologies of the era.

daniel · Post by **daniel** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:03 am

OK then we agree to disagree,
:-)
except if I take your message verbatim since I'm sure you will find easy ways to copy a DV tape in 5 years,
I don't believe it for miniDV though.

Maybe this board is still alive in 5 years, then send me a message and if miniDV cameras are still mainstream, I'll send you a box of belgian beers.
Yes, I've seen where you live...

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:53 am

daniel wrote:OK then we agree to disagree,

except if I take your message verbatim since I'm sure you will find easy ways to copy a DV tape in 5 years,
I don't believe it for miniDV though.

Maybe this board is still alive in 5 years, then send me a message and if miniDV cameras are still mainstream, I'll send you a box of belgian beers.
Yes, I've seen where you live...

You can send the box now: I'll PM my address now. Make it Mort subite, stp.

Look, I bought my miniDV cam nearly 11 years ago. I was in a large techie shop the other day in Switzerland and looked at their range of cams. They had 1 VHS-C model, 2 Hi-8s, 0 D8, 13 mini-DVs and 1 DVD, all of them SD (the assistant told me they had one HD model in stock, but didn't display it because it was too difficult to sell). DV was supposed to be the demise of analogue, but it takes a long time for the patient to die. Mini-DV has brought video to the man-in-the street. There is nothing foreseeable to replace it as mainstream. HD is useless for the time being: too much dust waiting to settle. There is little demand for DVD cams, according to the guy I was speaking to.

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:19 am

I can see Daniels concerns about new technology but I believe we have reached a technological line that has now been crossed.

By this I mean that new technology will continue to come along and I have this theory that in a few years time we will not be using things like Hard Drives and DVD disks. - These things are moving parts and so liable to bumps and scratches etc. I can see some form of cartridge coming along - whether it be like the games machine cartridges or like SD cards for digital cameras -who knows? Plus what form of storage medium will those 'cartridges' employ - magnetic or some other form.

Any way I am getting off my own point here which is:
Before this technological dividing line things were stored in all manner of formats.

Film was on things like celluloid which could be in all sorts of shapes and sizes 35mm, 8mm, Super 8mm and so on.
Audio records were on vinyl
Photographs were kept on paper in countless bulky photo albums
TV and film recordings were on VHS, Betamax and so on
Voice Recordings were on reel to reel tape recorders or cassettes

I think you get my drift.
Today all of these things are/can be kept in one common format - digital.

I therefore think that whatever new developments come along in the future the means will be there to use or move todays digital storage medium into tommorows.

daniel · Post by **daniel** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:35 am

Devil wrote:You can send the box now: I'll PM my address now. Make it Mort subite, stp.

Nice try! My proposal was directed solely as an answer to Troppo's post.
Australia is fine, but shipping glass from Belgium to Cyprus is too far away. In other words my "you" was "you Troppo" and not "You forum members".

And to speak about something I know for a change in this forum:
1. Mort Subite was not your best choice of Gueuze, by far. Try to find a Cantillon.
2. I was not htinking about a specific brand/make but one of those sample packages where you have several different types for different moments of the year and the day. By the way Troppo, where you live, if it says: to be served at room temperature, don't follow the advice except if you have a real good airco. See you in 2011.

Can we get more off-topic than this?

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:58 am

Throw in a few chocolates and I'll pop across to Belgium to collect them !

daniel · Post by **daniel** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:35 pm

You should have said that last week I was in Reading you would have to travel a little less. Ok you went from beer to chocolate that's the proof we COULD get more off-topic.

troppo · Post by **troppo** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 8:04 am

Geez, 5 years, that's quite a while. Howabout I'll send you a case of crappy australian beer (I never drink the stuff if I can help it) if YOU are right!
But you will have to remind me, my brain finds it hard to think about next week, let alone 5 years time!

Gra · Post by **Gra** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:34 am

I get the best of both worlds as I have a lot of meetings over in Brussels (in fact I'm writing this from there before heading back to the UK later), so Belgian beer and chocs (Neuhaus are my favs) are on the diet, along with many trips to the best restaurants and bars in Europe (sorry Parisiens) to watch the world go buy and ponder those big philosophical questions, such as how best to archive my clips (or how long till new technology overtakes DV!) Makes buying Birthday & Christmas presents easy as well cos everyone likes Belgian chocs or the beer and glass gift sets!