Anyone know what's happening with this error in Workshop 2

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:28 pm

I think trying another burner would be a good idea, can you borrow one to try? Mind you they are so cheap these days it's worth getting anew oner anyway.

Not sure why it works in 1 out of 3, bad luck? Odd about the burner not playing it, often they will in my findings, but then again if it is wearing, it may be this.

Got to go and get a suit for Friday

, good luck with it.

Graham

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:05 pm

Update... figure this...Sorry for long message but this is getting quite deep!

OK having made the changes to the encoding, suggested by George, it now plays on the two PCs I've tried it on, so that's great.

However, even after going out an buying a new -R (instead of current +R) burner and re burning the DVD, it still crashes the set top box exactly the same - this is whenever an "internal" chapter point is selected. This DVD can play start to end or jump in at the start of any video - just not jump to a chapter point inside a video.

Now.. this proves there is a chapter error being output by WS2 which is not important to the PCs but is to a previously fully compatible set top box. So I've been wondering why this could be.. I have found other references to this from other users:

http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/showthread.php?t=286
(read last post on that page)

Anyway... I have theory - I just wondered if anyone could tell me if I'm way off mark?

Could it be TIMECODE related?

It occurred to me that I am still joining clips shot at different times into one output AVI (for input to WS2) and I investigated how MediaStudio Pro (which I used) deals with timecodes.

(1) If you have two clips with different time codes and import them to the timeline and create a new AVI, the two original different timecodes are preserved in the output file. ie the timecode jumps at the join.

(2) Anywhere you have put any transition the timecode drops to 0 and then resumes after the transition.

(3) All my footage was not shot on tape but direct to Hard Disc with DV RACK and this it appears doesn't put ANY timecode in the footage at all. All zeros.

(4) WS2 completely makes up an imaginary timecode always starting from zero for every clip - whether it has it's own original timecode or not!

(5) FYI WS2 also used a fixed 12 frame GOP (PAL)

So here's the question:

If the set top box was told the chapter started at 1 minute 30 (for example) would it try to jump into the video clip at that point and be confused to see NO TIMECODE???

Thinking laterally - that would explain why -for example Skier et al- are OK with the chapters because footage would normally have a timecode??

Any thoughts?

Plus does ANYONE know where I can get a utility to write a new timecode over the AVIs to see if this is correct assumption????????

Thanks

Kevin

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:38 pm

When you burn, do you select any of the copy-protection options

If so, try doing it without the copy-protection options.

What type of *.avi files are you feeding DWS? Are they dv .avi? And you are sure that all of the videos are being encoded by DWS when burning your DVD (i.e. none of your source videos are already dvd compliant, or if they are dvd compliant then you have selected to "Convert to disc template")

If you would like, I can take a look at the DVD. You would have to upload all the *.IFO files and *_0.VOB files in the VIDEO_TS folder somewhere for me to download them (note, only the _0.VOB files, not the larger ones)...

Regards,
George

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:53 pm

Hi George

No - no copy protection (I thought you had to buy extra stuff for that to work?)

Just DV-AVI, but no timecode.

Yes, if I don't get anywhere soon, I'll upload what you need - but won't the files be massive? Many thanks for the offer.

Any ideas if my timecode theory holds any water and is worth me investigating further?

Any ideas re a utility to write a timecode into AVIs?

Thanks

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:31 am

Lastindependent wrote: Any ideas if my timecode theory holds any water and is worth me investigating further?

Any ideas re a utility to write a timecode into AVIs?

Thanks

Since DWS is encoding everything to mpeg for you, the timecode in the DV .avi is not retained. I don't think it matters if it's continous or not...

FWIW, there are utilities that will write a DV tiemcode -- check videohelp.com -- under their TOOLS section (look at the DV utilities).

Regards,
George

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:49 am

Timecode in DV is 100% irrelevant as it is not encoded to MPEG-2. The method WS2 -and I can be categorical here - uses for timing the subtitling is to use the frame number of the project, whether it has been encoded or not. Thus, if you have a subtitle that starts at, e.g., 00:01:23:12, this is translated to frame no. 2087 (PAL) or 2499 (NTSC), provided that it is an I frame (the sub-titler will fix onto where I frames will be according to the project GOP if it is still in AVI, I think. This may be why some third party sub-titlers generating a txt file for importing into WS2 come unstuck, I surmise).

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:15 am

Just to clarify - I'm not talking about sub-titling, these are chapter points within a video that are crashing a set top box, which is more than compatible enough to do such things if the DVD structure was 100% correct.

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:59 am

Ooops, sorry, mixing up the threads

However, the chapter points are also gauged by frame number, as are the s-ts in my previous post. They, too, have to be on I frames, but am not sure how this is done, although I have my suspicions.

StBruno · Post by **StBruno** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:18 pm

Lastindependent,

Do you have a copy of MPEG Video Wizard? I use it exclusively for editing mpegs - removing ads etc from tv recordings. I always use the I-frame pointer when splitting & joining. And I've never encountered this "problem" with WS.

MVW also has a neat "MPEG GOP Fixer" tool .. it will check an mpeg for bad GOPs, and correct any errors it finds.

StBruno

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:24 pm

I don't think anyone is going to turn a light on in my head and give me the solution - But to recap - for me as much as anyone else...

63+ video files
63+ menus (each menu associated with only one of the video files)
Total about 4Gb

Each of the small video files has a chapter point I have inserted part way through.

On each of the menus you can select to play the whole of the associated clip (using the clip as the link not the first chapter point) or start from the second chapter point.

For the first 10 menus/videos (approx) you can select the chapter point and it works OK.

After the 10th (approx) video the chapter points no longer work on a set top box, you can only select to play "whole" file without crashes.

EDIT - If I move the 11th movie nearer the start, the chapter point then works.
Go figure?

But it's causing me major headaches and delaying this project big time.

If anyone has a brainwave please share it and if I ever get out of this I'll explain what I've found.

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:49 pm

I just want to check: you do have the full version, don't you (not SE or Express)?

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:50 pm

Yes devil, full version with the updates applied.

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:59 pm

I'm away for 10 days, but if you're still stuck on my return you can post the stuff to me and I'll have a go at making it up for you?

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:27 am

Thanks for the offer.

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:34 pm

I'm back, you can mail me direct if you wish me to have a crack at it.

Graham