Anyone know what's happening with this error in Workshop 2

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:49 pm

Thanks Skier.

George - I normally just use the "BEST" (or does it say Highest) template 8000 bit rate, and that was what I was using before for intermediate tests and I experienced the problem almost straight away.

As the project has progressed and I've added more menus and videos I can't fit the content on using the "BEST" template anymore so I've gone for the next one down which uses 4000 bit rate I believe.

The resulting video does look poorer to me so I'm hoping I can create my own settings a bit nearer "Highest" if it wasn't for this crashing.

Answer to other questions : SL using just under 3gb now I switched down templates. But I have a lot more content yet to be added with menus.

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:09 pm

Please provide the following info:

-what version number of DVD WS are you running
-Total Duration of all video (in minutes)
-CBR or VBR encoding
-Audio Type
-if audio type allows, what is the audio bitrate
-One-pass or Two-Pass encoding
-does the DVD Play using software dvd playback? Or does it "crash" when playing back on a computer?
-how many dvd players "crash", and what are the make/models?
-Have you updated the firmware of your DVD Burner?

Here are some generic guidelines I like to follow (ymmv - some might not apply to your situation)

-keep video+audio bitrate <= ~7.5mbps
-when space permits a "higher" video bitrate (like ~7mbps), use CBR to avoid potential "spikes" in the bitrate that can occur with VBR encoding
-keep the total size <= ~4gb (on dvd5)
-if your DVD is less than 1gb, add some "padding" to make sure there's at least a little over 1gb total space used
-use Dolby Digital (AC3) audio for a good mix of "global" compatibility, and a lower audio bitrate to allow for higher video bitrate (mpeg audio can use the same low bitrates as DD audio, but not all NTSC DVD Players will play mpeg audio)
-don't use sticky labels on your dvd's
-keep burner firmware up-to-date (follow instructions carefully when updating firmware)
-keep burning software up-to-date
-do not leave the dvd session "open" -- always "close" or finalize the disc
-don't always burn at the max speed of your burner/media combo (I've had great success burning at 4x)
-try different media (brands and types) Not all DVD±R/RW will work with every player, or some will work better in some players than others...

Regards,
George

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:13 pm

GeorgeW wrote:Please provide the following info:

-what version number of DVD WS are you running
-Total Duration of all video (in minutes)
-CBR or VBR encoding
-Audio Type
-if audio type allows, what is the audio bitrate
-One-pass or Two-Pass encoding
-does the DVD Play using software dvd playback? Or does it "crash" when playing back on a computer?
-how many dvd players "crash", and what are the make/models?
-Have you updated the firmware of your DVD Burner?

Version 2 with the update applied - so latest version
I was using VBR - I see your notes so will switch to VBR
Audio was LCPM will now use AC3
Was using one pass - will now use two pass
The crash happens on the PC and on set top dvd player
Just tried it on PC and player - they both crash so no point searching for one that doesn't.
Firmwares updated but it is 3 years old 2.4x Philips

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:32 pm

Switch to CBR (I think that is what you meant). Keep it at single-pass for now (you can try 2-pass later).

Also, switching to AC3 audio will allow you to get more video and/or use a higher video bitrate (because LPCM audio eats up space).

Have you tried different brands of DVD discs? Perhaps you have a bad batch that has a problem at the ~3gb mark

Burn the DVD to DVD Folders on you hard drive, then use software to playback from the DVD Folders (i.e. not a dvd disc). Let us know if the problem still happens when playing back from DVD Folders on your computer hard drive...

Regards,
George

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:37 pm

Cheers George.. I was already thinking the same about the DVD folders, (it's running as we type - on another PC) that will identify if it is a burning problem or the output ftom WS2 that's at fault.

I've also used Save/As Package to get a fresh start incase it's all the messing about I've been doing.

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:00 pm

Ok...took hours but I have now tested the new DVD....

Problem still the same. Crashes set top box and PC.

I have put links in the menu that allow me to run the "whole" of the movies or the (as desired) troublesome chapter points. It only crashes when I try and run the chapter points.

This rules out disc error and pinpoints te structure relating to chapters.

The DVD folder I created at the same time appears to work OK - how do I get that out to DVD? It's 7Gb???? I thought it was the same as written to the DVD???

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:02 pm

Sounds like you have it twice?

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:02 am

Lastindependent wrote:Ok...took hours but I have now tested the new DVD....

Problem still the same. Crashes set top box and PC.

I have put links in the menu that allow me to run the "whole" of the movies or the (as desired) troublesome chapter points. It only crashes when I try and run the chapter points.

This rules out disc error and pinpoints te structure relating to chapters.

The DVD folder I created at the same time appears to work OK - how do I get that out to DVD? It's 7Gb???? I thought it was the same as written to the DVD???

Just to confirm -- you are saying it plays back fine from the DVD Folders on your hard drive

Even when you run the chapter points

What is the size of the folder with the name VIDEO_TS -- that is what you will be burning to Disc (along with the empty AUDIO_TS folder).

What bitrates did you use for your recent test

If you changed to AC3 audio, it should have gone down in size from your prior LPCM audio

If the problem when accessing certain chapters? Like the ones that are after "x" minutes on the dvd

Have you tried any other media? What brand and speed is your current media rated?

Regards,
George

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:23 am

Hi George - thanks for your continued interest/suggestions.

Yes, I've only done a quick test on the PC so far due to the time - I'll test it more fully tomorrow - but yes (at time of writing) it appears that using the same DVD software on my PC, (that hangs when I play the "actual" DVD), if I play the folder then it works fine.

The output folder has other folders other than the Video_TS in. I think Workshop work files as well but the VIDEO-TS is the size I was expecting (less than 4Gb). It was these other files (another 3+Gb) that confused me but I can just ignore those (I hope).

I used AC3 audio - wasn't sure of best bit rate but after a search on the net I went for 192 kbs which was suggested elsewhere - do you agree with that?

I also used Two-Pass - do you think that is worth the extra time and gives a better result?

I'm so bloody close with this project now I desperately don't want to have to go back to square one with another application. I've been editing and authoring this for 2 months now - it is a monster project but almost there.

So what would you suggest now... assuming the DVD folder is 100% OK when tested more...

I'm thinking, get a new burner and the latest Nero??

Then use Workshop to create the DVD folder and Nero to write that to the new burner. if that works I could eventually just try Workshop direct to the new burner.

I've never bypassed Workshop before - is it literally just a case of using Nero to write the DVD folder out to the DVD??

I used 7.5kbs and ac3 audio (192 kbs) which allowed everything to fit in 4Gb, still looks good quality and a little bit of space to spare. If I can just stop this dam hanging/crashing I'm home and dry

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:18 am

192 should be fine for the audio. I use up to 256, but to my untrianed ears and pretty decent dvd/5.1 surround system, I can't tell much of a difference, if any.... most of the jobs I do don't come with such good audio to enable me to do so anyway

I always tend to use 2 pass vbr, but then I don't use the WS encoder, preferring Procoder.

If the folder plays properly it must be in the burning process, so a new burner wouldn't go amiss.

I'm not a fan of Nero, it does terrible things to my video editing pc, so I don't have it on there, and I now use Deep Burner, which is excellent. To be honest though, of the hundred of different projects I do, I always burn from WS. I use Deep Bruner for writing data files to dvd.

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:22 am

Skier - can you post a link to "Deep Burner" please?

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:24 am

http://www.deepburner.com/

Graham

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:17 pm

OK..it gets more weird.... any advice greatly appreciated...I feel like I'm in some sort of Twilight Zone.

Anyway..I just thought I'd try the latest DVD (the one mentioned last above with Ac3 etc) in another computer with a DVD drive and guess what - it works 100% perfectly.

So what does all this point to? What do I have to do to get a DVD that just plays on my set top box and other computer like it does in this one?

Given all the evidence - is it the burner? will a newer burner give me more compatibility?

This is a commercial DVD that the client is going to be selling.

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:19 pm

Are they all going to be burned or are they going to be glass mastered/pressed?

If pressed then you only need either the one that works or DLT tape.

Graham

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:22 pm

I think a small run of duplicated DVDs are being done first - then when everyone is happy they are to be glass mastered in large quantity.

What do you think about the burner?? Why do you think it works in one out of 3 not 2 or 3 out of 3?