Anyone know what's happening with this error in Workshop 2

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:06 am

I've needed to create DVD that has many video clips on it more than the 99 allowed.

To ovecome the 99 limit I combined every two files into one new video file and loaded these in instead and set a chapter point at around where the second video starts in the file.

Great I thought..but..

Now...I have a bigger problem... this new structured DVD actually crashes the DVD player (set top and PC) - I've identified it is crashing at the point where it would be following the chapter point link from the playlist.

Why? Any ideas?

DVDDoug · Post by **DVDDoug** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:55 pm

I combined every two files into one new video file...

How did you "combine" them? With Workshop, or with a video editor (i.e. Video Studio or Media Studio)???

What format/properties are the original files?

FYI- You can have up to 99 titles (programs or movies), and each title can have up to 99 chapters. That's a limitation of the DVD specification, it's not just a limitation of Workshop. That means that you can have almost 10,000 chapters* if you structure the DVD correctly! (The Workshop playlist won't stop playback at the end of a chapter, it will continue to the end of the title.)

If you've actually managed to exceed one of those limits, your DVD is out of spec, and that could cause a crash!

* That's probably not really true... I doubt you're allowed chapters that are one second long!

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:17 pm

I combined them with Mediastudio.

The original files were MPEG-2 - I pulled them into Media studio, together and created a new MPEG-2. I then pulled that in to Workshop and stuck a chapter in the middle.

***How could I have combined them in Workshop like you say??****

I'm now nowwhere near the "99" limit but the created DVD crashes the player everytime it tries to run a chapter point.

To be exact it works OK for the first few at the start of the disc then eventually (when you get further into the dvd) it crashes when the chapeter point would run.

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:20 pm

Is it always the same chapter point?
Or is it random, so it may go to title 5 then crash at the chapter point, or sometimes go to title 9 then crash at it's chapter point?

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:10 pm

No - always the same - I can recreate it and crash DVD players at will.

I have now reverse engineered the software and identified the problem.

There is a bug is Workshop 2 which does not correctly identify I-Frames in files where that file is already encoded as MPEG-2 (eg by MediaStudio pro). Thus it is allowing (and encouraging) the positioning of a chapter point in a position other than on an I-Frame.

This bug does not exist in the portion of the software that is used when an AVI is the target.

I am yet again completely amazed by the lack of support obtainable from ULEAD every time a problem is encountered. Maybe I should send them a bill for identifying this!

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:13 pm

I must have been lucky then, as I've always inserted mpegs and made chapter points in them and never had that trouble - phew

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:17 pm

skier-hughes wrote:I must have been lucky then, as I've always inserted mpegs and made chapter points in them and never had that trouble - phew

Yep, it works OK on chapters at the start of the DVD so there is a "size" issue as well.

But unless you've then religiously selected each chapter after burning the DVD you just won't know if you've got the problem or not. If the viewer avoids the chapter selection it will work fine.

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:40 am

I'm with SH - never seen the problem. Do you have unusual GOPs?

AH! Think I surmise I may have the cause. When you combine two MPEG files into one, there will usually be an unusual GOP at the join. If you re-encode with Smart render on, this may maintain the anomalous sequence and it may lose track of the I frames. To avoid this, I think it would be wiser to not use Smart render (and lose some quality). I can't confirm this, as I never do any editing in MPEG; I encode only after all the editing is finished.

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:16 pm

On important work I do religiously check all chapter points. Devil may have it though.

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:00 pm

Yes, it maybe the "join" is contributing to the problem - or at least made it visible enough for me to track it back, but the bug is in Workshop. Now I understand it I have been able to recreate it with an AVI file.

Which isn't so bad as I can now workaround it - It's a bug in Workshop calculations of chapters points. You do need to push the limits to see it - but it's there just waiting to bite!

Workshop is buggy - and has no update path - both bad news, which is such a shame.

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:02 pm

How do you recreate it then Kevin? I wouldn't mind having a play.

Graham

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:10 pm

Not sure I can give a recipe for creating it from scratch - nor that you'd want to put the effort in really. But I have no problem with this current project switching it on and off.

Basically there is an element that dependent on size of content, number of videos, menus etc. Thenuse of chapter points etc.

If you've gone past 3Gb on a DVD then I'd say you've almost certainly created a DVD with the bug.

Anyway - I'm certainly looking to jump ship from Workshop which is a crime - if it had some support and they introduced GPRM (or correctly termed VM) programming it would be the best app available.

I was considering a switch to Encore before I worked out how to side step the bug - and even Encore doesn't have GPRM programming - so if Workshop had it it would rule the roost.

Take note Ulead!

Lastindependent · Post by **Lastindependent** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:05 am

OK, I take back my comments regarding "understanding" this bug.

Having had it under control, I've now introduced some more menus and videos and it's now a permanent fixture

Chapter points at the start work OK and further through the disc they cause crashes. These are chapters in an AVI with Workshop 2 doing the encoding.

I will purchase a new burner, as mine is about 3 years old now, just to remove that from the equation - then I have to pay someone else to re-author and burn a DVD that I've already authored!

- I don't hold out much hope as I was able to side step the bug earlier. If it was a burner problem I don't think I would have been able to do that.

Time is against me on this project I don't think I have the luxury of learning a new application in time to complete this (very important) job.

Thanks ULEAD - still the only response is a standard email saying uninstall and reinstall!

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:01 am

What are the settings you are using when DVD WS is doing the encoding?

When you say it seems to "crash" the DVD Player -- I wonder if the bitrate is "spiking" at particluar spots, and so your DVD Player is choking on the high bitrates...

Are you encoding VBR or CBR, and what is your video bitrate as well as your audio type/bitrate

How long is the entire DVD (in minutes), and how much space does it take up on your DVD Disc? Also, are you using SL or DL discs?

Regards,
George

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:16 pm

If I can help at all with it Kevin let me know, but I'm away from Thursday am for 10 days.

Lots of my dvds are over 3gb, but not many have lots of menus, usually about 3 max, but most have lots of chapters.