smart-renderer produces shortdistortions with titles

Sektionschef · Post by **Sektionschef** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:27 pm

Hi
Thanks for your answer.
I use virtualdub-mpeg2 (http://fcchandler.home.comcast.net/stable/index.html).
You can directly load the mpeg2 file and then go through the clip frame by frame. The tool will also show you whether the current frame is I,B or P frame.
Here(http://zyvid.com/smf/index.php?topic=31 ... 77#msg1577) I have posted a screenshot that shows how such a distortion looks like.
A user there has confirmed that he also run into this problem. In another german forum I got a confirmation that another user has the same problem.
I have now installed UVS10 service pack1 but problem remains.
Regards
Sektionschef[/url]

EDIT by sjj1805
Just to make this easier to follow here are the two screenshots that Sektionschef has posted in the other forum.

(click) With Distortion ::::::: Without Distortion

::

Post by **Ken Berry** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:14 pm

Sektionschef -- I understand your frustration. I too have experienced slight (but to me annoying) distortions associated with transitions in VS (particularly in VS9). I knew they were associated with synchronising I-frames in GOPs (groups of pictures), though in my case I tracked them to the 'virtual' cuts made when editing longer video clips which had been notionally cut into smaller segments after capture by 'split by scene' (i.e. they were only cut virtually and not in reality). Instead of going through the time-consuming procedure you adopted, I opted instead to always use 'Save Trimmed Video' on each of the 'virtual' clips to create *real* individual files. My distortion problem went away. I am not saying that this will resolve your problem as well, as our work flows are obviously different: I use mainly DV-source material, and even my VHS captures are in DV format...

However, the real point of this post is to say that I think you may be expecting too much of VS, which is after all only a consumer-level product. Expecting a program to be able to determine with accuracy where I-frames lie in a GOP is really the work of a more professional editing program or one specialised in dealing with mpeg-2s and GOPs, such as VirtualDub or Womble.

Hopefully, though, your experiments with the Advanced setting might have at least alleviated the problem.

Sektionschef · Post by **Sektionschef** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:24 am

Hi Ken
Thanks for your answer.
I am not that frustrated although I was expecting that SP1 would fix this problem, especially because it includes a lot of new features/fixes concerning mpeg2 files.
Many Thanks for the hint, I will try out whether the distortions go away when saving each clip after I have trimmed them.
However, I do not agree that I expect too much from VS.
Ulead states that it supports editing of mpeg2 files and they also state that they support smart-rendering. As a customer I am allowed to expect that these functions works without problems.
At the moment I can live with the situation that I must do my time-consuming procedure to avoid the distortions. For me it is more important to use smart-rendering(to avoid reencoding as much as possible) which preserves my video quality. If I would want to save time I can easily turn of smart-rendering but that is not what I want.
I will let you know further results of my tests.
Regards
Sektionschef

Sektionschef · Post by **Sektionschef** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:03 pm

by the way, is it possible that we collect all found bugs in a seperate section of this forum. I could think that Uleads engineers sporadically look into this forum and then they could concentrate on this section.
Perhaps the administrator/moderator of this forum could put the reported bugs into that section in case some other experienced user(with a certain amount of postings) has confirmed it. This would sort out problems that came from wrong usage. I could think that it would be a help for Ulead if they can see how a certain bug can be reproduced...
In addition we could add a section "Feature Requests" where we could enter our wish lists for future releases.
Regards
Sektionschef

Sektionschef · Post by **Sektionschef** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:23 pm

Hi Ken and the others
Now I did a test and selected Clip->save trimmed video with every clip before I put them onto the timeline.
Unfortunately this does not fix the problem. Even if I only use these saved clips then the distortions are there.
I have put a short sample clip onto the web(http://files.filefront.com/hannah8wmv/; ... einfo.html), its only 4MB in size compressed as wmv, if someone is interested then please have a look.
The sample has 2 transitions(crossfades), the distortions can be seen at the end of each transition.
Would be interested to know whether someone else also has this problem.
Regards
Sektionschef

Post by **Ken Berry** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:10 pm

Yes, I see what you mean -- and it would certainly annoy me too!

I am sorry that my idea was of no help to you... In my case, the distortion actually occurred during the transition, around midpoint and seemed to be a frame or two of another scene unrelated to either of the two scenes being joined by the transition. Yours, of course, seems to be a sideways flicker.

I am at a loss for more suggestions on getting VS to work better for you on this.

To anyone else I would probably have suggested playing around with the length of the transition to see if that made any difference. But we both know that the problem is a technical one relating to I-frames and GOPs, and that requires a more fundamental programming revision by Ulead/InterVideo/Corel...!

Sektionschef · Post by **Sektionschef** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:04 am

Thanks again, Ken
By the way, I have seen the same problem in Mediastudio8 and in latest version of Magix Video deluxe.
The only difference with Magix is that the distortion always appears at the beginning of a transition, not at the end.
However, don't all 3 packages(VS,MSand Magix) use the mainconcept mpeg2 encoder, I assume this is the root cause of this problem.
One more thing: The mpeg2 clips from my camcorder are 704X576 and not in the common format of 720X576. Although the hor. res. of 704 is still DVD compliant, could this have anything to do with it?
Regards
Sektionschef

Post by **Ken Berry** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:08 am

You're right about the Main Concept mpeg-2 codec being used by Ulead -- though it has some pretty impressive credentials! Adobe Premiere Pro also uses the Main Concept DV codec... So I am not sure about it being the culprit.

As for your non-compliant format, I really cannot say. I noticed that the screen grabs you have posted and the WMV file I looked at this morning looked squished horizontally. But I don't know whether this alone would introduce that sort of distortion only after a transition...

Sektionschef · Post by **Sektionschef** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:18 am

Ken Berry wrote: As for your non-compliant format, I really cannot say. I noticed that the screen grabs you have posted and the WMV file I looked at this morning looked squished horizontally. But I don't know whether this alone would introduce that sort of distortion only after a transition...

Oh yes, the original recording was done in 16:9 widescreen while for the conversion to wmv I forgot to resize the clip for this aspect ratio. So the resulting mpeg file that VS10 creates is OK, the hor. squished look comes from the conversion to wmv and should have nothing to do with the problem.
The resolution of 704X576 IS DVD-compliant and in VS10 you are able to select this resolution.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:07 pm

You are of course quite right. I was recalling a recent thread about someone capturing using 640 x480 (or 576?) and how it was non-DVD compliant. Then I associated your squishy image with that...

Sektionschef · Post by **Sektionschef** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:52 pm

Hi
I just want to add the information that I can see these distortions also if I use mpeg2 files with a resolution of 720X576.
As I already thought the problem does not have anything to do with the uncommon resolution of 704X576 that I mainly use.
Regards
Sektionschef

Sektionschef · Post by **Sektionschef** » Thu May 03, 2007 8:06 pm

Dear All
I Just Want To Let You Know That This Problem Still Exists In Videostudio 11plus!!!
Even When Using The New Mpeg-Optimizer Of Vs11 The Distortions Are Still There So The Smartrenderer Of Vs11 Is Still Faulty!!!

Regards
Sektionschef

jhutchings · Post by **jhutchings** » Wed May 16, 2007 9:09 pm

I can confirm this also, on titles the distortion appears for me at the end of the title, on transitions on clips that were imported without any trimming, everything is ok. Now if I trim a clip and join it to another trimmed clip then the distortion reappears. Is there any way to fix this other than a complete rerender

Jerry Jones · Post by **Jerry Jones** » Wed May 16, 2007 11:43 pm

Have you tried cleaning out your TEMP files prior to doing a final render of the project?

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

sokrates4612 · Post by **sokrates4612** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:33 pm

Sektionschef wrote:Hi
I just want to add the information that I can see these distortions also if I use mpeg2 files with a resolution of 720X576.
As I already thought the problem does not have anything to do with the uncommon resolution of 704X576 that I mainly use.
Regards
Sektionschef

Hello,

I am totally new to Ulead VideoStudio 11.

My camcorder produces 704x576 videos. When I use any transition effects and produce a movie with camcorder default video properties (704x576) and using Smart renderer, I get also distortions in the begin of the transition and at the end of it.

When I turn off smart renderer, transitions are OK!

When I change project (and output of course) settings to 720 px width, using Smart renderer, there are no distortions (but loose of quality because of stretching source video)

So it looks like Smart renderer, when rendering transitions, do this:
1, expands video proportions to width 720 px including a source video
2, then makes a transition of 720 px width
3, then restore default video width to 704 px

And thats the reason of distortions, in my opinion...
Or you have another kind of distortion...?