smart-renderer produces shortdistortions with titles

Sektionschef · Post by **Sektionschef** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:11 pm

sjj1805, many Thanks for answer here!
I assume that your reported problem is NOT the same that is reported here in this thread.
This is because:
1.) the problem here ONLY appears if MPEG2-smartrendering is enabled.
If you just disable(uncheck) the smartrendering then the result is fine.
2.) the problem appears with Titles OR transitions

Could you please do a test and use my mpeg2 file and the procedure from here: http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic. ... 946#122946
to see the distortions on your system.
Then, just disable mpeg2 smartrendering and you will see that the distortions will disappear. Same happens with titles.
Maybe with your experience you can tell us how this problem can be worked around or perhaps you have any other ideas.
Do you also have a good connection to Ulead's R&D department to report this bug for us?
Regards
Sektionschef

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:45 am

Sektionschef

This thread is now perhaps one of if not the longest on the forum and it will take quite some time to review all of the posts. Yes I will investigate the problem you have mentioned in your previous post but I am a shift worker with 7am-2pm / 2pm-10pm / 10pm - 7am shifts. This a revolving four week pattern and a lot depends upon which week of that shift pattern I am working as to how much time I have available. (Plus of course any domestic issues - Mrs Jones!)

This week is mainly the late shift followed by nights and so please bear with me until I have a suitable time span where I am able to sit down and go through this properly. So if I don't reply for a week or so it is not because I am not showing any interest - I am keen to look at this but I think you understand I need to find a proper time slot to do it in.

Regarding contact with R&D to some degree I have contact and so dependant upon my findings I may refer this matter to them. Obviously due to my involvement in this forum I see a vast number of issues across a wide range of products and so have to be selective in what matters I pass onto the software Company. Please be assured that I will do what I can to help resolve this issue.

Regards - Steve J.

Sektionschef · Post by **Sektionschef** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:39 pm

sjj1805 wrote:I am keen to look at this but I think you understand I need to find a proper time slot to do it in.

Many Thanks for taking time for that,Steve. Can't wait for your answer.
When looking at this please do this as a mpeg2 camcorder user.
If you just see this as a miniDV camcorder user then this bug will not be so serious for you.
And I can tell you more and more mpeg2 camcorders(miniDVD,HDD,memorycard,etc.) are coming into the market so more and more people are concerned.
Regards
Sektionschef

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:00 pm

Firstly I shall try to gather together everything in this one post. It took quite a few hours of work to extract all these posts and slim it down to 21 A4 pages in Microsoft Word.

To summarise:
There have been 6 users in this thread who have reported problems:
bsuratt
jerry jones
jchutchings
ken berry
sektionschef
sokrates4612

Other persons who have posted to this thread are either offering possible cures or joining into general discussion.
16 users have posted to this thread (to date)

The screen shots mentioned in this link are repeated here for ease of reference. Click the thumbnail to view the picture in larger detail.
(click) With Distortion ::::::: Without Distortion

::

Sektionschef wrote:Could you please do a test and use my mpeg2 file and the procedure from here: http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic. ... 946#122946
to see the distortions on your system.
Then, just disable mpeg2 smartrendering and you will see that the distortions will disappear.

Here is the procedure mentioned in the above quote:

Sektionschef wrote:The distortions do not appear with every cut(see history of this thread) but you could do the following procedure to get them:
-put http://members.chello.at/lorber1/test.mpg onto the timeline at 00:00:00:00
-cut the clip at 03:20 in 2 parts using the scissor
-insert a "fade to black" transition with a duration of 1 seconds at that cut position
-smartrender to a new mpeg file, it will have a distortion at the end of the transition.
-render again but disable smartrendering: no distortions can be seen
I did the same now and you can see the distortion in
http://members.chello.at/lorber1/test1.mpg
Please let me know your results

I acknowledge that there is something wrong with your video in the link given
http://members.chello.at/lorber1/test1.mpg - it appears somewhat jumpy.
What I also observe though is that if I follow your instructions EXACTLY then there is something missing namely the 1 second fade to black transition.

I did as you requested and imported YOUR mpg2 file. When prompted by VideoStudio to alter my project settings to match that of the video to enable smart rendering I selected Yes.

I made a cut at 03.20

I inserted a 1 second fade to black transition.

For the next part I will pass no comment other than to provide two links.
Both of these files are created with the setting "Same as project settings"

01: MPG File with Smart Render Enabled
02: MPG File with Smart Render Disabled

Interestingly the file sizes are all different.
File with smart render enabled = 7,790 KB
File with smart render disabled = 7,278 KB
Original unedited file size = 8,883 KB

Sektionschef · Post by **Sektionschef** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:50 pm

Steve, many Thanks again for taking your (valuable) time and for investigating this problem.
I have downloaded both of your files and I CAN see the distortions in your file smartrenderon.mpg!!!
If you do not see them then please do the following:
-Put smartrenderon.mpg onto the timeline at 00:00:00:00
-put the jog slider at 03:19
-now either move the jog slider slowly between 03:19 and 03:23 or use the "Next" and "Previous" Button to go between 03:19 and 03:23.
You should see the distortions then.
Do the same with smartrenderoff.mpg, no distortions will be seen.
Can you please confirm this?
Regards
Sektionschef

Sektionschef · Post by **Sektionschef** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:22 pm

Steve, perhaps you can see the distortions better by using this file:
http://members.chello.at/lorber1/test2.mpg
But this time you need to cut it at 03:18 before inserting the transition.
If you cut test2.mpg at 03:20 then no distortion will appear because it seems that an I-Frame sits at 03:20.
Regards
Sektionschef

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:02 am

Smart Render ONFile size = 6,912 KB
Smart Render OFF File size = 6,630 KB

GeorgeW wrote:
To summarise:
There have been 6 users in this thread who have reported problems:
bsuratt
jerry jones
jchutchings
ken berry
sektionschef
sokrates4612
I would make it 7 users -- I posted in this thread, and I also saw distortion (using my own clips)

http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic. ... 151#125151

Regards,
George

Thanks George, It was heavy reading but I will post a correction.
Obviously there IS a fault otherwise there wouldn't be so many users reporting the problem. I can only follow the instructions posted by Sektionschef and post the results.

I draw no conclusions at this time and am keeping an open mind.

etech6355 · Post by **etech6355** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:13 am

Steve, I think there also may be an issue with the fade 2 black transition.

Post by **Ron P.** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:37 am

I tend to agree with etech. However is it just more noticeable with the fade-to-black then a cross-fade? I tried both, and it seems that the cross-fade tends to either hide the glitch, or it does not happen with it.

Sektionschef · Post by **Sektionschef** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:10 am

Hi Guys
I think that the distortions are generated with ALL kind of transitions.
With some transitions like fade to black the distortions can be seen better than with other transitions. I defenitely know that the distortions are also seen with cross-fade transitions.
AND: You can also see the distortions with TITLES!!!
Regards
Sektionschef

Sektionschef · Post by **Sektionschef** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:20 am

By the way, there was another user, humanoid, who has reported the same problem in another thread:
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic. ... highlight=
Regards
Sektionschef

Jerry Jones · Post by **Jerry Jones** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:11 pm

I agree.

This renders the Corel MPEG smart render technology ineffective.

But remember, folks, this does not affect DV .avi files or other types of intraframe compression such as high definition Cineform .avi files.

This problem only appears with long GOP (MPEG) source material.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

Sektionschef wrote:Hi Guys I think that the distortions are generated with ALL kind of transitions. With some transitions like fade to black the distortions can be seen better than with other transitions. I defenitely know that the distortions are also seen with cross-fade transitions.
AND: You can also see the distortions with TITLES!!!
Regards
Sektionschef

Sektionschef · Post by **Sektionschef** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:33 pm

Steve, are you doing some further investigations on this???
If you have agreed that this is a terrible bug then perhaps you can help us reporting this problem to Ulead's R&D department.
Regards
Sektionschef

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:02 am

Email forwarded to Corel for your information:

A number of forum members including at least one Moderator in this lengthy post
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic. ... 1863#71863
smart-renderer produces short distortions with titles
Have requested that I bring this post to the attention of the VideoStudio Development Team.

Regards.
Steve Jones

Sektionschef · Post by **Sektionschef** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:14 am

Many Thanks, Steve!!!

Please let us know if you get any answers on this.
Regards
Sektionschef