Hi Heinz how are you mate hey thanks for everything you do here for me ok much appreciated.
The reason for this message is that because you know I'm a new user of the MSP7 I am finding everything so difficult to adjust and configure that nothing works for me so I am asking you the same I have asked Gorf would be able to send me an email when you have time showing me how you have the MSP7 configued??? example in properties what is clicked and what is not and so on if you know what I mean and also the capture window too as I have the problem that the Top menu under setup or capture not all the menues are selectable they are faded and can't be clicked at the moment I only capture analod video not digital .
I hope I'm not asking too much maybe this can show mw what I have configured wrong.
Much appreciated Heinz Kind Regards Joey from Sydney
Media Studio Pro 7
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heinz-oz
I virtually never capture analog video and if I do, I capture straight to mpeg2 and don't edit at all.
Having said that, my settings wouldn't do you any good, because my circumstances are entirely different.
How do you capture your analog video? What method of connection? Capture properties?
If you are capturing analog to mpeg2 and attempt to slowmo an mpeg clip, I'm not surprised you can't get it to work. I think you are pushing a string mate. Mpeg, at the best case scenario, is troublesome at best. Simple clipping the front/end or cutting out unwanted scenes, maybe, but anything else, hmmm...????
You not only have to take the field order in to consideration but also the length of your GOPs or the distance from one I frame to the next. If you want any success with slomo, forget about mpeg and set yourself up to capture DV-AVI. It's hard enough that way. You need to do the slowmo part while the clips are not compressed. You also keep the clips to slowmo separate from the rest. Do each slowmo separately and render a new DV-AVI clip from that. Then combine everything in one project with the normal speed footage as well and generate your mpeg2 from that.
Having said that, my settings wouldn't do you any good, because my circumstances are entirely different.
How do you capture your analog video? What method of connection? Capture properties?
If you are capturing analog to mpeg2 and attempt to slowmo an mpeg clip, I'm not surprised you can't get it to work. I think you are pushing a string mate. Mpeg, at the best case scenario, is troublesome at best. Simple clipping the front/end or cutting out unwanted scenes, maybe, but anything else, hmmm...????
You not only have to take the field order in to consideration but also the length of your GOPs or the distance from one I frame to the next. If you want any success with slomo, forget about mpeg and set yourself up to capture DV-AVI. It's hard enough that way. You need to do the slowmo part while the clips are not compressed. You also keep the clips to slowmo separate from the rest. Do each slowmo separately and render a new DV-AVI clip from that. Then combine everything in one project with the normal speed footage as well and generate your mpeg2 from that.
Hi, Joey.
If you're slowing footage down, use 25% or 50% only. If your footage has been shot in "Frame" mode on the camera (and you've told MSP that it's frame mode in Media Source options) then you can get away with 33% too.
If those speeds aren't acceptable, you need to buy something like MotionPerfect from Dynapel.
MSP just isn't good at resizing or speed changes, because it doesn't resample (resize) or interpolate (speed). It just repeats or deletes pixels (resizing) or fields/frames (speed change).
25% works out (for you) at 6¼ frames per second which is about as slow as you can get without the footage getting so choppy it's distracting. Using MotionPerfect, you'll get a slightly better result because it attempts to generate new in-between frames.
As to capture settings, I'm just like Heinz - I only capture analogue footage to MPEG-2 using a USB adapter thing. Each time I do it, it's a chore, because 99% of the time I'm capturing DV.
I would say, though, that one of the areas you can come unstuck with analogue captures is with the field order. Are you absolutely sure that you've got it set correctly? To test, just get two bits of your original footage , one on Va the other Vb. Overlap them by one second and apply a page-turn transition between them. If it flickers when viewed on your TV, your field order settings are wrong, and that's having a big impact on the rest of your efforts to slow down the footage.
If you're slowing footage down, use 25% or 50% only. If your footage has been shot in "Frame" mode on the camera (and you've told MSP that it's frame mode in Media Source options) then you can get away with 33% too.
If those speeds aren't acceptable, you need to buy something like MotionPerfect from Dynapel.
MSP just isn't good at resizing or speed changes, because it doesn't resample (resize) or interpolate (speed). It just repeats or deletes pixels (resizing) or fields/frames (speed change).
25% works out (for you) at 6¼ frames per second which is about as slow as you can get without the footage getting so choppy it's distracting. Using MotionPerfect, you'll get a slightly better result because it attempts to generate new in-between frames.
As to capture settings, I'm just like Heinz - I only capture analogue footage to MPEG-2 using a USB adapter thing. Each time I do it, it's a chore, because 99% of the time I'm capturing DV.
I would say, though, that one of the areas you can come unstuck with analogue captures is with the field order. Are you absolutely sure that you've got it set correctly? To test, just get two bits of your original footage , one on Va the other Vb. Overlap them by one second and apply a page-turn transition between them. If it flickers when viewed on your TV, your field order settings are wrong, and that's having a big impact on the rest of your efforts to slow down the footage.
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Joey54
slow motion
Hi guys thanks for your help much appreciated as always but I really believe that other editors can do wonders with slow motion as there are many people specially wedding videographers like I am one that do slow motion clips for thjeir productions but maybe this MSP7 is not as good as it looks if it can't do slow motion anyway I will keep going here if I can't get an answer with this system I will buy one that will do it for me .
Like always you guys are great and very helpfull I will try capturing in avi files maybe that may be the case of good slow motion with MSP7.
Kind Regards Joey Thanks
Like always you guys are great and very helpfull I will try capturing in avi files maybe that may be the case of good slow motion with MSP7.
Kind Regards Joey Thanks
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heinz-oz
I don't know where you guys get your wisdom from. Have you ever slowed down a digital clip? The video frame is made up of two fields, odd and even scan lines. By the time the second field (never mind if it's upper or lower or A or B), is displayed on the screen, the object has moved across the screen. Let's say a car is moving across the screen, the edges of that car body do not line up between even and odd scan lines (field). If you now duplicate these fields (digital does not allow for higher/lower speed like a tape does (or any other analog source). To slow the clip down, MSP has to duplicate frames. If that is done with interlaced video (2 fields per frame) the object, in our case the car, is shown in one position in the first field and in a slightly different position in the second (1 frame), then this frame is repeated, showing the car again in the position it was before in the first field and slightly advanced in the second. The object keeps moving to and fro. The clip cannot play smoothly, regardless of the field order. Wrong field order will only amplify this effect.
The only way to get a somewhat smooth action slowmo, is to eliminate the field issue first. The most simple solution to that, IMHO, is to have this clip in a separate project, frame based, and slowed down by duplicating frames, the resulting clip is relatively smooth because the motion of the subject only goes one way, not to and fro. Inserting this clip into a field based project will let MSP deal with it like each frame has two identical fields.
It worked for me but I don't use it very often.
The only way to get a somewhat smooth action slowmo, is to eliminate the field issue first. The most simple solution to that, IMHO, is to have this clip in a separate project, frame based, and slowed down by duplicating frames, the resulting clip is relatively smooth because the motion of the subject only goes one way, not to and fro. Inserting this clip into a field based project will let MSP deal with it like each frame has two identical fields.
It worked for me but I don't use it very often.
Last edited by heinz-oz on Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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heinz-oz
Re: slow motion
Hi Joey54, you had posted this before I had posted my response, while I was putting it together.Joey54 wrote:Hi guys thanks for your help much appreciated as always but I really believe that other editors can do wonders with slow motion as there are many people specially wedding videographers like I am one that do slow motion clips for thjeir productions but maybe this MSP7 is not as good as it looks if it can't do slow motion anyway I will keep going here if I can't get an answer with this system I will buy one that will do it for me .
Like always you guys are great and very helpfull I will try capturing in avi files maybe that may be the case of good slow motion with MSP7.
Kind Regards Joey Thanks
Sure you can go for a much more expensive program to achieve that but I feel, if you are doing this for a living, wedding videos etc. , you would be much better advised to invest in a digital camera and do away with the cumbersome working with analog/mpeg files.
Your explanation is really confusing, even to me, and I like to think (possibly delude myself) that I know what I'm talking about.heinz-oz wrote:The only way to get a somewhat smooth action slowmo, is to eliminate the field issue first. The most simple solution to that, IMHO, is to have this clip in a separate project, frame based, and slowed down by duplicating frames, the resulting clip is relatively smooth because the motion of the subject only goes one way, not to and fro. Inserting this clip into a field based project will let MSP deal with it like each frame has two identical fields.
If you slow down an interlaced DV clip (say) to 50%, MSP will take the first field and generate a new frame by repeating the field. The next frame will be the second field processed similarly. At no point do I tell MSP that the clip is frame-based.
If you force an interlaced clip to frame based in media source options, MSP ceases to do operations using the separate fields. If you slow it 50%, MSP will repeat each frame once to double the length of the clip. But when you view that on a TV, you'll get flicker, because you're seeing frame 1 field A, frame 1 Field B, frame 1 field A, frame 1 field B, Frame 2 field A and so on.
If you want to do speed adjustments through full frame manipulation, it's better to record the source footage in frame mode. You still need to tell MSP that the source is frame based, though. I could be wrong, but I think that until you change it, MSP always assumes DV to be lower field first, even if it's actually frame based from the camera.
Addendum: If (at the time of filming) you do know that you will want to make a shot slo-mo in the edit, and you don't[b/] want to be restricted by the binary requirement of field-based source, you'll still be hit with a need to slow to unary speeds (1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5 etc, which equate to percentages of 50%, 33%, 25%, 20%). Use of non-unary percentages such as 40% (2/5) mean that you will have an inconsistent number of frame repeats for each frame. For example, for 40%, you'll get frame 1 repeated once, frame 2 repeated twice, frame 3 repeated once, and so on. This will produce a jitter in itself...