5.1 Soundtrack Compatibility

Chrizer · Post by **Chrizer** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:53 am

Hello, first time post!
This question probably been covered, but I just want to join in the forum posting madness!
I'm using Video Studio 10 plus to produce dvd mpeg with 5.1 Dolby sound. For some reason, when I import this to DVD WS I don't get any audio at all. Is this a compatibility issue with 5.1 Dolby audio or a VS10 & DVD WS?

Thanks
Chrizer

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:53 am

DVD Workshop cannot create Dolby 5.1 when it does not already exist.
Providing your source material already has Dolby 5.1 and also providing that the material does not have to be re-rendered then the existing sound track will simply pass through.

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:40 am

sjj1805 wrote: Providing your source material already has Dolby 5.1 and also providing that the material does not have to be re-rendered then the existing sound track will simply pass through.

And providing you don't have "Convert to Disc Template" in Edit|Audio checked.

Chrizer · Post by **Chrizer** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:56 am

Thanks for the reply! Make sense. But the soundtrack wont even display in the attribute and when previewed, no sound comes out. I am giving up on 5.1 soundtrack for now. It just wont work for me. I created a dvd with 5.1 using Video Studio 10 to create the disc but when I play it back on a dvd player, the sound is mostly coming out on the right speaker. I must be doing something wrong with creating the mpeg file or enabling the 5.1 feature. I've read about splitting the audio in VS 10 if your converting a stereo audio to 5.1. I have not tried this yet and I'll have to see if anyone have any success with 5.1 soundtrack.
It's a pity that 5.1 is not as straight forward as Ulead led us to believe.

StBruno · Post by **StBruno** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:20 pm

Steve J & Chrizer,
I think it's been mentioned elsewhere that there's some predefined maximum bit-rate limitation involved here. I'm not sure what precisely this limitation is, but for example:

video: Pal/720x576, 9200 kbps var
audio: Dolby 5.1 448 kbps
.. WILL "pass through" as described by Steve.

But:
video: Pal/720x576, 9800 kbps var
audio: Dolby 5.1 448 kbps
.. will NOT work .. everything appears to be fine until the very final stage when you attempt to output your project to a dvd folder, and then WS2 refuses to proceed, complaining "total bitrate is too large ..".

I always use the "High Quality (Dolby Digital AC-3 audio)" disc template which has a predefined video bitrate of just 8000 kbps, and audio bitrate of 256 kbps. When I've attempted to customise this template I find that the maximum video bitrate I'm allowed is 9632 kbps, and 448 kbps for audio (Dolby 2.1).

StBruno
(DVD Workshop 2.2 Express, AC-3 PowerPack 1.0)

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:32 pm

It is not at all clever to use high bitrates.

1. unless your video source has NEVER been compressed, you will gain nothing in quality. A DV input, for example, is compressed about 8:1 and consequently has its artefacts. No amount of high quality encoding will eliminate them or improve on the quality, as has been shown time and time again.

2. many set-top DVD players (and many computers with minimal hardware resources) cannot play high bitrates from DVD±Rs (some of them baulk from pressed disks as well)

3. the greater the number of bits read in a given time from a DVD±R, the greater the chances of a faulty bit causing a serious glitch.

4. it is not without reason that high bitrates are rarely used on commercial pressed DVDs: your Hollywood blockbuster is probably recorded with an average of only 4500 kbit/s, although it may peak to 8500 for very short periods of less than ½ second (the hardware encoders they use professionally allow this to be done, but the encoders in the <$50,000 range certainly cannot have this fine control)

Just because the DVD spec allows a combined A + V bitrate of 9800 kbit/s does not mean that you have to use it or that it is wise to do so. It isn't!

My recommendations for quality DVDs that will work nearly everywhere:

a) video bitrate of 6000 kbit/s for projects < ~90 minutes CBR. For projects > 105 mins, you may wish to switch to VBR, but do not expect miraculous improvements in quality over CBR, or you will be diappointed.
b) AC-3 (DD) bitrate of 192 kbit/s for stereo sound (2.0) - you will gain nothing by going higher. You may use 448 kbit/s for 5.1 sound, but your project length will be shorter.
c) target your file length to a max of 4.1 Gb, to avoid using the outer mm of the active part of the blank, which is always hairy.
d) use top quality named blanks.
e) burn at ½ the max speed of the blanks or 4 x or less, whichever is the smaller. I always burn at 2 x or 4 x.
f) remember that the fastest frame-to-frame changes in your project are during transitions and this is where you will have the highest bitrates if you use VBR, not when you have Shumi going down the straight or an F-16 taking off.

DVDDoug · Post by **DVDDoug** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:01 pm

NOTE: I haven't tried 5.1 yet, because I dont have any 5.1 soundtracks to work with.

But the soundtrack wont even display in the attribute and when previewed, no sound comes out.

I would expect that. Workshop does NOT have a 5.1 codec, so it can't decode and play it. Note that Steve said it should "PASS THROUGH" to the DVD.... He did NOT say you could preview it. If Workshop 3 is is ever released.. we are hoping for 5.1.

...if your converting a stereo audio to 5.1.

Unless you're trying to create a special-effect (like panning the sound around or something), that's a BAD IDEA.

Video Studio does NOT have a Pro Logic decoder. If you "convert" a 2-channel encoded "Dolby Surround" soundtrack to 5.1 AC3 without properly decoding it, YOU WILL LOOSE THE ORIGINAL SURROUND ENCODING. Leave it as 2-channels and LET YOUR PRO LOGIC RECEIVER DO IT'S THING! You can get a software Dolby Surround encoder/decoder from Surcode.... But it is $500!!!!!!

The same is true if you are "converting" a regular stereo soundtrack to 5.1. Your Pro Logic receiver will do a better job of that too. It has several modes to choose from.

It's a pity that 5.1 is not as straight forward as Ulead led us to believe.

I suspect it is straight-forward if you feed Video Studio a 5.1 channel WAV file, or a DV file with 4-channel LPCM. I'm pretty sure you can easily position a mono soundtrack wherever you want also.

I don't have any audio software that can create a 5.1 WAV mix from several mono or stereo WAV files... And, that's why I haven't tried making a 5.1 DVD yet. Maybe Adobe Audition can do it???? (Audacity can't do it. Goldwave can't do it.)