Music Copyright Question

[sjj1805]

I know here in australia they have started banning parents from bringing their handycam to watch a school play, because of music used in the play. ............

Unfortunately it probably isn't the music, more likely to be due to the "Gary Glitter" types of this world.

I think that that you should think before you shoot. consider where you are and if anyone or anything liable to be captured during your shoot is making a profit from what they are doing then ask. You are often told at the start of a concert if filming is banned.

Now going the other way, if you went to a theme park full of performers such as Disney, can you imagine anyone turning up at the park with filming equipment being asked to leave their cameras at the reception gate!

[Gra]

As mentioned earlier, I'm not a Copyright Lawyer but I am a Public Affairs Consultant and I've had some projects where Intellectual Property Rights float across the radar - and you will be surprised how complex and how dumb it can all be. A few years ago I remember reading Rolls Royce took a young guy to court because he fixed a Rolls radiator grill to his mini. He got clobbered financially because Rolls argued he abused and undermined their IPR by using their icon in an inappropriate manner and risked losing their IPR to the public domain!

I appreciate that the BBC, for instance, may go out and film and incidentally catch music or signs in the background but they actually have paid a shed load of money for a Royalties licence (which even doesn't cover them in some situations). Feature Film makers also have to be careful: have you noticed that every piece of music is covered in the credits (even for scenes where just a few bars are supposedly playing on a radio in the background)?

If you use music for your own use and for no commercial intent whatsoever, it is ok and I make home videos accordingly for me and my family. For anything I do where it could have a more commercial aspect, I always use music from Royalty Free sources, such as SmartSound or freeplay music (where you pay a small fee but they actually allow you to download free as well for personal use).

In the case that has kicked-off this fascinating thread, it seems to boil down to 2 things: if the music is retained in the DVD, will he be caught and if so will the company take it seriously and demand he be sent to the tower?

Let's be clear it will infringe IPR but I suppose it is unlikely he will be caught if the DVD is just sold to a small number of people turning up at the local volley-ball tournament. If he is caught, I'd expect a polite, but formal letter from the company asking him to buy a licence or stop sales immediately. However - be aware, some companies may go straight to the 'see you in court' type letter and it is worth noting music companies can be a bit paranoid about protecting their poor low margin industry (of a couple of billion dollars or so).

Hope this helps and sorry if it all seems a bit gloomy,

[Black Lab]

Now I know exactly what to do......find a new hobby! All I wanted to do was shoot a freaking volleyball tournament!

[DarrenD]

My two pence worth (UK resident as is Gra and his "sent to the tower")

If you go ahead with it I would leave the poor quality DJ sound and NOT replace the sound with ripped CD quality music. At least you MIGHT have some defence that the music is incidental. How many copies are you intending selling (just to the participants/spectators for posterity or to a much wider general audience) and how much for (cover costs or purely for profit)? I guess there MIGHT be a defence if it is only for those that were there and for a nominal cost, i.e. for the love of it and "because we can" [now PC editing is affordable] rather than as a business venture.

The "Gary Glitter" problem is a real one. It is such a shame that my capturing the enjoyment of my kid doing something is prevented by this. My daughter was in a cheerleading event and we were not allowed to tape it.

I did a DVD of a school play and made a single copy for the school. I approached the headmistress about possibly selling copies to parents for a nominal £2.50 (cover the cost of the DVD+R blanks for me and the rest to the school funds) but she said it was not a wise thing to do.

Darren

[Gorf]

I know here in australia they have started banning parents from bringing their handycam to watch a school play, becasue of music used in the play...

It sounds a much better excuse than the cr*p our headmaster has started coming out with - he doesn't want it filming in case it falls into the "wrong hands" and ends up being watched by paedophiles.

I bet most of you didn't also know that any songs performed in a church (except the good oletime hymns) are copyright and can only be performed under license, with a fee for each time it is used.

I found that out when I first started putting prerecorded music onto our DVDs. We went to a website for licencing music and found that the church music is oone of the aspects covered by their licence. So here we were, quietly absorbing the cost of a legal licence for all the music until we did a wedding in Blackpool and discovered that the churches also charge for the licence once they discover the wedding is being videoed. And to add insult to injury - he was charging £110 for the churchy bit's copyright (that's a wedding videography technical term, by the way) whereas we were being charged £56 for churchy bits, dubbed music and incidental music.

[Devil]

Moral of the story: before doing a wedding video, suggest to the happy couple that it will be a lot cheaper to use "good ole hymns".

Examples:

Fight the good fight with all your might
Courage, brother, do not stumble, though thy way be dark as night

[skier-hughes]

I ended up not videoing a frinds wedding as the organist was worried her organ playing would make it out it to the big wide world without her consent, so she wanted £100 off me just for her!!!!!!! Then the vicar wanted his cut....... that roof must have been in one hell of a state!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mathis]

If the person videoing the tournament has to worry about background music being played by the band or a DJ, does the band or DJ have to pay the royalities before playing the songs they play? If so, can't the videographer get together with the DJ or band leader before the tournament and co-pay for the license and then do whatever he wants to do with the DVDs? Or would the playing the music be a different license than selling a DVD?

Black Lab, do you have a clientel already established? Will you be advertising this DVD locally? The reason that I ask is because I've taped a few things and anyone at the event has never been interested in having a DVD of it. The functions have been at church and even though I leave a copy in the church library, no one ever checks them out. I'm just wondering if there's going to be any real interest except for the players. I taped a co-worker's wedding and it was six months before she even got around to watching it. None of her family wanted a copy of it, either, and she hasn't even shared it with any of her family. I was standing in the prime spot during the wedding and was able to get the tape her brother did and intermigle his with mine so it came out really good. But it's like everyone was there for it, so they don't want to go through it again. One of our co-workers wanted to see it, because she wasn't able to attend, but she didn't want a copy of it.

Good luck!

I know here in australia they have started banning parents from bringing their handycam to watch a school play, because of music used in the play. ............

Unfortunately it probably isn't the music, more likely to be due to the "Gary Glitter" types of this world.

I think that that you should think before you shoot. consider where you are and if anyone or anything liable to be captured during your shoot is making a profit from what they are doing then ask. You are often told at the start of a concert if filming is banned.

Now going the other way, if you went to a theme park full of performers such as Disney, can you imagine anyone turning up at the park with filming equipment being asked to leave their cameras at the reception gate!

[htchien]

If the person videoing the tournament has to worry about background music being played by the band or a DJ, does the band or DJ have to pay the royalities before playing the songs they play? If so, can't the videographer get together with the DJ or band leader before the tournament and co-pay for the license and then do whatever he wants to do with the DVDs? Or would the playing the music be a different license than selling a DVD?

To my understanding, in this case if the band/DJ want to play the music song in public, then they need to pay for the royalities. However, if they do not pay for it, they might need to be caught in sight.

I think if the videographer is not a member of the band or is not hired by the band/DJ then he cannot pay the royalities with the band/DJ. He might need to sign an agreement to pay the license separately.

If you sell the DVDs or other creations for commercial use and did not get the license agreement then it's possible you will get sued by the copyright owner. If you do not sell the creations for commercial use, then it might (just might) be OK to release the creations to a small group or to some friends. For example, if you make a wedding DVD and send the copies to your friends who joined the wedding with a fee only enough to pay for the disc (maybe 1 USD), then it might be qualified for non-commercial use and might be OK (however, you still need the agreement from the wedding couple).

However, these are only my understnading of copyright issues. It would be better to seek for advices from the copyright lawyar.

Best regards,
H.T.

[Gra]

And the moral of this story is if you use copywrite material in video work as a hobby, no problems. But if you want to sell your work, normal business rules apply and you won't even get santuary from the church - unless it's a case of sanctuary much for £110.00 (sorry for that).