Music Copyright Question

[Black Lab]

I know the topic of copying a music cd for background music has been beaten to death (copying for personal use is ok, for commercial use is a no-no, as I understand it for the US), but I didn't find any reference to my particular question, which is this.

Say I am doing a DVD that I intend to sell copies of, be it a wedding or some other event that has a DJ playing music. As I am recording the event I obviously am also recording that music. If I do not edit out the music that was recorded, will the copyright police burst through my door and take my first born?

If the answer to that is no (my son will be glad to hear that), then what if the music that was recorded is of poor quality, I mute it, and replace it with the same song that I happen to own on CD?

I eagerly await your opinions, facts, and ideas.

[lancecarr]

Hi Jeff,
I think the bottom line here is whether you intend to sell the final product. Regardless of how the music gets on to the video and in what condition it is in the concept of private use goes out the window as soon as you says you are going to sell the final product.
Look on the bright side though, the first born is generally the one you were using the get the whole parenting thing worked out. As a result they tend to be a bit unruly anyway so what the hell?!

[DVDDoug]

Man, that's a good question!

If course, if you sell the DVD to the general public, you're in big trouble!


If the RIAA kicked down my door, here's what I'd argue to the jury:

- The DVD(s) are for the personal non-commercial use by the bride, groom, family & friends.

- I am not selling these DVDs, I am selling my services.

- The bride & groom could have set-up their own video camera on a tripod and taped their wedding & reception, and there would no copyright issue. Or, they could have had a friend walk-around with a video camera. Instead, they hired me to tape and edit the event. I am just a human tripod.


When it comes to replacing the music, I think you'd have a better argument if the client owns the CD.

[Black Lab]

Maybe using the wedding scenario was a bad choice.

Here's the issue. A volleyball tournament was held in town this weekend. I have proposed to video the tournament next year and sell a highlight DVD. During play, a DJ is playing music. If I want the video to showcase the sights and sounds (the sound of the players, not necessarily the music) of the tournament, I would be breaking the law, even though that music was not played or added by me? What if a McDonald's sign is in the background (as is the music)? Wouldn't that be considered the same thing?

[maddrummer3301]

.

[Ron P.]

Well I done something very similar a couple of years ago. I was hired by a relative to do a DVD, which was to be played during the reception of his wedding. I was payed for my services, to produce the DVD, which consisted of video, images, and music, all provided by the Groom. I didn't sell the DVD, to him or anyone else.

So far the copyright cops hasn't stopped by .

This is what I learned back then when I started looking into the possibility of producing these for an additional income.

That in order to get the true permission to copy music for resell, I would not only need permission from possibly the RIAA, but the band, the songwriter(s), and the label(s) that produced it. Now to gain all that would be a tremendous feat for just a very small amount of cash. It would cost more to get the OK, then I would earn off of it. So I figured if I used 5 songs on a DVD then I would have to run down all the above for each song. My conclusion was it's not worth it. So if I do one I have the requestor provide a CD, tape, record that he/she owns and use it. All I do is charge them for my time, and use of my computer.

Ron P.

[sjj1805]

Why not use Smartsound

[shredding]

a few links:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.p ... ight+music

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.p ... ight+music

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.p ... ight+music

[maddrummer3301]

.

[sjj1805]

Freeplay Music
Terms Of Use

If you are using Freeplay Music for:

1. *Programming content to be included in an ASCAP, BMI or SESAC licensed National US TV Broadcast, as well as later rebroadcasts of the same within the US (EXCLUDES Local-only TV, regional only TV, Public and Community access TV, Closed Circuit TV, Web Broadcasts, Advertising Commercials or Promos, and any Radio Broadcast use.)
2. Feature-Length Films for U.S. theatrical release by a major U.S. film studio (in exchange for music cue sheet compliance)
3. Personal Non-Commercial Use (Non-revenue generating or associated) Personal use does not include any broadcast use - web, blog, podcast or other
4. Educational, Non-Commercial use (limited to student use on school grounds for in classroom projects- non broadcast)

Then Freeplay Music compositions and recordings may be used (broadcast, synchronized and/or copied) without fee. These reproduction rights, known as master synchronization rights, are absolutely FREE and are granted in perpetuity, provided a Freeplay Music $0 dollar license is signed and faxed to us and Freeplay Music is accorded appropriate screen credit as follows, with size and placement on a most favored nations basis with all other music providers: "Music Provided By www.freeplaymusic.com". In addition, provided the first broadcast appears on a U.S. National Network Broadcast (non Cable Broadcast), then Videocassette/DVD Master Recording and Synchronization rights fees are also FREE. To obtain your $0 Freeplay Music license please contact us at 212-974-0548..
http://www.freeplaymusic.com/

Edit 03/01/2008. Please view this link regarding "freeplay music"
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic. ... 346#142346

Smartsound Quicktracks
SmartSound for Independent Filmmakers

If you are like most indie filmmakers, you don't have access to an unlimited budget to solve all of your music scoring needs. This is true whether you are looking for a complete music scoring solution, or an affordable and professional way to augment music scoring resources such as composers or licensing popular music.

SmartSound has a solution that can benefit all filmmakers, regardless of your situation. Our patented music technology in the Sonicfire Pro software provides you with a flexible music scoring solution that allows your score to adapt to changes made to your film during the creative process. Think of it as a music partner that is with you every step of the way, delivering music on demand while you edit and re-edit each scene until it's just right. Not only is Sonicfire Pro on hand at all times, but with SmartSound's huge library of profession compositions, you'll get more variety than you could achieve with a single composer. You even have flexibility with purchasing SmartSound music; you can buy the entire library or individual tracks through the software, making the best use of your precious budget. And since it's a royalty free music library, any SmartSound music used is your production is licensed and ready go, no additional license fees or contract negotiations.

Footnote:
I've now created a link to this thread in our Frequently Asked Questions Section.

[Black Lab]

Thank you to those of you who have tried to answer this confusing question.

Steve, the reason I want to use the original soundtrack and not Smartsound is I want to hear the players and the crowd. To be honest, the music is sometimes a pain in the rear because certain games that I am taping are close enough to a speaker that I hear nothing but the music.

And MD, unfortunately my dog would only lick them to death!

I will continue to research this because I would really like to do this project. I will certainly post any definitive answers that I find.

[sjj1805]

This topic has been brought up many times, but clear answers have not been so plentiful.

Following is an exerpt from an article in Videomaker magazine:

"But what would the law be without loopholes? In the case of copyright law, there are a few that may help you. But before I get to those loopholes, let me suggest that you consider bellying up to the bar and requesting that the copyright holder allow you to use the work. The copyright holder may grant you the right to copy the music for very little or no money. It's worth asking. Just remember to get that permission in writing.

As for the loopholes, here's the first one: no work created before 1922 (movies, recordings, sheet music, etc.) can be under copyright. That's the magic date at which all previous registered copyrights have expired. So you can find old music books or musical scores, for example, and play the music on your piano or your guitar for your videos. You can't use a recent recording of old music, however, since the performers or their publishers would have rights to the copyright to their specific performance.

Here's another loophole: if you plan to use someone else's copyrighted work without permission, you can do so as long as your intent is to make a video for criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship or research. That's called fair use. Unfortunately, wedding videos, school performances and entertaining scenarios do not generally fall within one of the categories above."

The entire article can be found here.

[Clevo]

Black Lab...if you leave the music in the background "as is" you are not breaching copyright as the copyrighted material is reagarded in this instance as "incidental". Once you use your CD collection you a breaching copyright if you then sell the video (or even broadcast it on Youtube).

Also, the the netball game is an organised competition then the admisitrators of the game also have/own the right to the game and you would need their permission too as they own the rights to the game...also the ownsers of the stadium would also have some dibs into copyright too.

In Australia if you are shooting a tourist spot technically you are in breach of copyright if you happen to also incidentally film a busker performing. Also in australia some natural heritage sites are copyright owned by the indigenous tribes. (e.g Uluru)

It's complicated.

I have to deal with this sort of issues at work every day.

[sjj1805]

I personally have looked high and low throughout the internet in search for background music that I can use with corporate (business use) productions.

For personal use, royalty rights are not an issue. For me, someone that uses music to promote products and services on-line and via marketing DVDs, it is imperative that I am legitimate when using someone else's music.

So, with that said, I wanted to tell you a little about my experiences . . . If you yourself have been looking for good sources to purchase music license agreements from, then you yourself have likely seen the music licensing world of utter chaos and ambiguity. There are good sites out there like freeplaymusic.com that have a wonderful way of reviewing their music. It's really nice. But then, when you get down to wanting to use their music, watch out, the pricing structure is a bit high. But, after you've gone through much agony of dealing with some of the other hard to work with sites, you're likely like me willing to pay just about anything when you find a piece of music that you like.

A recent example is that we made a 3-minute video to be shared on You-Tube and distibuted via 100 DVDs that we needed background music for. I found a perfect track off of freeplaymusic.com, however to license its use for Web Video i.e. You Tube, they wanted $50 (Business One Time Background Use) per year. And, $.50 per DVD we distributed under 100 piece Qty. Ouch . . .

The thing is, Royalty Free Music Sites have their own way of getting as much $$ from you as they can. They have so many idiosyncrasies, so many variations, so many 'this and thats' that it simply makes your head spin trying to filter through it all. Then, on top of all that filtering you still have to find the right song, which might mean listen to hours and hours of songs. In the mean time generating an enormous headache

So, here's what I found that we plan on using as a first line of music choices for ourselves proceeding forward . . . .
There are music sources out there that will sell you their music once to use as many times as you want, for whatever purpose you want, as long as you want, and they call this a "Buyout License". - Which means that after you buy the Music from that source, you have 100% full rights to do whatever you want with that music.

The best source I found for a compilation of Buyout Music, CD/Download suppliers, believe it or not, has been through Ebay.

Simply search Ebay.com for Royalty Free Music, and you'll see for yourself that there are plenty of CDs/Bundle-Options out there for you to choose from.

[auntisocial]

I can tell you that VEOH deleted one of my videos the other day citing that it was in violation of copyright infringment when I had neither changed the music, nor sold it anyone.

Also, when I did "Aces High" I used a song that was written prior to 1923 and is "technically" not subject to copyright law. I found it in public domain recordings. I also had written permission from the person who recorded it to use it. They also sent this written permission to Lucasfilms and Lucasfilms wouldn't touch it. They made me replace the soundtrack with in-game music. So, it's definitely a complicated subject.

I will be checking out the SmartSound stuff.

Aunti