Which Camcorder to Buy

[VinMan]

Hello to all ok i am going to buy a new camcorder but stuck on which on to buy - i was thinking of getting a Sony DCR-SR90E

But looking at the specs it recorders direct to Mpeg2 (no good for editing in VS10)

So what would be a good camcorder to get!

Cheers

VinMan

[Ron P.]

Hi Vinman, and welcome to the forums..

That could depend on how you intend on using it, and your budget? Are you going to be doing professional videograhpy work, or just for home, hobby and family?

You keyed on one important spec, and that is the ability to record in DV (digital video) AVI. The old (now) models of Sony's DV camcorders (DCR-TRV... record to tape(Hi-8/Digital in DV format. The videos can be transfered/captured to a computer using a Firewire (Sony iLink or IEEE1394) cable. Most if not all will come with a USB but not a Firewire cable. The USB should not be used to transfer the video. It's primary use is for transfering images or using the camcorder to stream video as a webcam, with low resolution video.


Another thing to consider is are you wanting to record HD (High-Definition), or would you be satisfied with Standard Definition?

I would start by writing specs for what I want the camcorder to do, how much money I can spend, and any "bells and whistles" I may want. Then I would start doing searches on camcorders and read the specs on each. You could then eliminate those that don't meet your specs.

By the way I use a Sony DCR-TRV120. It's outdated, but still does a great job for what I need it to do. I use it for recording my grandchildren, and as a pass-through to transfer my old VHS, and Betamax videos to my computer to produce DVDs.

Ron P.

[jchunter]

Hello to all ok i am going to buy a new camcorder but stuck on which on to buy - i was thinking of getting a Sony DCR-SR90E

But looking at the specs it recorders direct to Mpeg2 (no good for editing in VS10

The SR90E records video directly to a hard disk drive in the camcorder. The 30 GB capacity would permit you to store about 6 hours of video in Mpeg2 @ 8Mbps - which, BTW, is the format that you need when you burn high quality DVDs (no need to transcode from DV to Mpeg2). Transferring the video to the computer will be very fast and simple because the SR90E will appear as an external hard drive. (Capturing from DV tape takes an hour to transfer an hour of video). Don't be afraid of editing Mpeg2 because Video Studio will smart-render the video, only re-encoding the cut junctions.

Having said all of that, if I were getting a new camcorder today, I would want high definition recording. I have a Sony HDR-HC1 and I love it. The picture quality is far superior to standard definition video. The Sony HDR-HC3 is much smaller and more user-friendly. I expect (pure speculation) to see the price of the HC3 drop close to $1000 and a new "HC5" camcorder by Christmas that records HD video on a hard drive (as the SR90 does).

[skier-hughes]

I would want high definition recording. I have a Sony HDR-HC1 and I love it. The picture quality is far superior to standard definition video. The Sony HDR-HC3 is much smaller and more user-friendly. I expect (pure speculation) to see the price of the HC3 drop close to $1000 and a new "HC5" camcorder by Christmas that records HD video on a hard drive (as the SR90 does).

What you have is a camcorder which records in HDV, not HD, there is a marked difference in the cost of camcorders, Sony's HD cam coming in at £20,000 and the compression with HDV being highly compressed, unlike the HD.

The other thing to look at, to make use of the Hdv cam, would mean also investing in a HiDef tv, wouldn't it?

[jchunter]

What you have is a camcorder which records in HDV, not HD, there is a marked difference in the cost of camcorders, Sony's HD cam coming in at £20,000 and the compression with HDV being highly compressed, unlike the HD.

The other thing to look at, to make use of the Hdv cam, would mean also investing in a HiDef tv, wouldn't it?

The Sony HC1 and HC3 both encode in Mpeg2 with a frame size of 1440x1080 pixels, interlaced: Upper Field First @25Mbps bitrate. This is high definition - by definition.

Sony's FX1 (~$3K) records in the same format. It has better low-light performance than either the HC1 or HC3. I am not current on any Sony pro-quality high def. camcorders.

If you don't have an HDTV, you can still benefit by shooting in HD and down res to SD (standard definition). You can create the high definition files when you get an HDTV. Kids and grandkids only grow up once and IMHO, it is better to record the source tapes in high definition.

[rwernyei]

Sorry John. If one needs SD as their medium output, buying an HD cam and downconverting to SD does not yield better results. This above statement only applies to the better 3 chip SD cams. Check out this article. It is a comparison of 2 3chip SD cams to Sony's HDV FX1 cam which is a much better cam than the two mentioned consumer HDV HC1-HC3 cams.
http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/shoot3/
Another note is that HD cams do not shoot well in low light.
Bottom line if you need HD then going the consumer route that you have may suffice, for uncompressed HD one needs to look to more professional series offered by JVC, Panasonic, Oakley, Silicon Imaging, Varicam, Sony CineAlta, etc... For SD there are more options like interchangeable lenses, mini-DV, standard DV, DVCAM, etc...

I do not know this poster's budget so I cannot really give a recommendation at this moment.

[erock1]

To me it looks like VinMan's budget is about 700 Euros or roughly $895 US judging by the model cam he's looking at. It also looks like this cam is only on the European market as of now.

Anyway, I use the same cam as Vidoman, the Sony TRV-120. It's a work horse, takes excellent quality video (IMHO) the digital Hi-8 tapes are cheap and as Vidoman said, it can be used a a passthrough device which I have used extensively to convert my old VHS tapes.

If I were in the market for a new cam, I probably would go with something a bit smaller that uses miniDV tapes but I would make sure the cam wasn't too small that it would make control awkward. Some small cams have such little control buttons. I think I would take a hard look at one of the Panasonic 3 CCD models. In Vinman's price range the PV-GS200 would be my top choice.

[skier-hughes]

What you have is a camcorder which records in HDV, not HD, there is a marked difference in the cost of camcorders, Sony's HD cam coming in at £20,000 and the compression with HDV being highly compressed, unlike the HD.

The other thing to look at, to make use of the Hdv cam, would mean also investing in a HiDef tv, wouldn't it?

The Sony HC1 and HC3 both encode in Mpeg2 with a frame size of 1440x1080 pixels, interlaced: Upper Field First @25Mbps bitrate. This is high definition - by definition.

Sony's FX1 (~$3K) records in the same format. It has better low-light performance than either the HC1 or HC3. I am not current on any Sony pro-quality high def. camcorders.

It is, by definition a compressed form of HD known as HDV.

It's a bit like saying SD mpeg2 is the same as dv which it isn't because dv is compressed at around 5.1 and mpeg2 at around 20.1

Here are some Proper HD cams
http://www.libraprobroadcast.co.uk/products.asp?cat=35

[jchunter]

Skier-Hughes,
This thread has gone way off topic. But I will be happy to discuss whether high definition is defined as uncompressed video in another thread.

[Black Lab]

Hey Steve, time to break out that can again!

(http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=14491)

[skier-hughes]

Skier-Hughes,
This thread has gone way off topic. But I will be happy to discuss whether high definition is defined as uncompressed video in another thread.

No point you know way more than me, I'll leave you to it.

[PeterMilliken]

The information that I have gleaned over the years seems to indicate that a 3-CCD camera is the camera of choice (at least over any of the single CCD cameras ).

So assuming that we are not talking HD or top of the line professional cameras I would recommend one of the cameras from Panasonic. Back in 2001 when I bought my Panasonic MX-300, they only had the one model with 3-CCD's (and it was billed in the camera reviews as a "semi-professional" camera) but since then Panasonic have gone slightly crazy and bought the 3-CCD feature down into it's low(er) end priced cameras.

A friend is interested in purchasing a camera and I have advised her to look at the 3-CCD cameras - I assume that the other manufacturers have 3-CCD models but I think that Panasonic have the widest range. I was looking at their web-site yesterday and they have 3 models that take mini-DV tape, a further 3 models that take a mini-DVD disc and a model that writes directly to SD memory card.

I consider the 3 models that take mini-DVD disc "deadend" because they can only record 18 minutes (approx) of video on the disc (this is at DV resolution - you can select VHS resolution and get 37 minutes - but why not buy an analog camera if you want VHS resolution? ). So I ruled them out for my friend.

The model that takes SD memory is interesting - although the maximum SD card at the moment is 2 GByte - which is again about 20 minutes at top resolution of the camera. However, I read a review where Panasonic were quoted as stating they were expecting 16G and 32G memory cards in the next year or two - but that could be a lot of hot air from salespeople So you would be taking a risk by purchasing an SD based camera - but not much, SD cards are bound to increase in capacity, but the question is when and how much?

So the models I am recommending to my friend are one of the 3 that take the mini-DV tape. The top model in this range is the NV-GS500 which retails for about $2200 AUD (RRP) - but as usual you can get it cheaper. This camera is nice because it has the Leica Dicomar lense and uses optical image stabilisation (OIS) (as opposed to electronic image stabilisation).

But if the budget can't stretch that far then there is the NS-GS300 (RRP $1540 AUD) and the NV-GS180 (RRP $1100 AUD). These later two do not have the Leica lense or the OIS but then they are cheaper and still have the advantage of picture quality via a 3-CCD camera.

Several years ago my father purchased a Sony single CCD camera (can't remember the model number - TRV XXX?) based on a magazine review - the reviewer expressed the opinion that it "approached" 3-CCD picture quality - but that is not true. I have used both cameras in the same scenery/situation and the Panasonic provides a much truer representation of the scenery being video'd in terms of colour depth and was better able to handle the ambient lighting situation.

I realise that these model numbers may not be available in your country - but have a look at your local Panasonic web-site and look long and hard at any 3-CCD camera (Panasonic or otherwise ) - I would definitely recommend bypassing any of the single CCD models in favour of a 3-CCD camera. I get great results from my MX-300 and other than a very expensive repair bill (25% of the original camera cost) about 2 years ago, I have been extremely happy with it - so if you do get the "expensive" model get the extended warranty (assuming this is available in your country - we can get 5 year extended warrantees here and I wished I have purchased one with that camera! ).

Peter

[lancecarr]

Here's what I did and ended up with a great cam for my needs.
Go to www.camcorderinfo.com.
Check out the top 20 or 30 cams from their camcorder "ratings" section. Eliminate the ones out of your price range.
Go to the review of each one and check the table at the end of the review. It shows a point score for each feature of the cam. This is shown as a "raw" score and a "weighted" score. Ignore the weighted score totally as it is an arbitrary figure added in by the reviewer and will be biased towards his or her opinions, desires..whatever.
Take the raw scores of the features that you consider important ONLY and ignore the rest.
E.g. If low light capability is important to you because you will do a lot of indoor shooting then add it in but if manual control of the shutter speed leaves you cold, then leave it out. Add them up. Repeat this for every cam you feel could possibly fit your needs.
Now take the top ten or so based purely on the raw scores and read the full review of the cam. Do not read it from the point of view that the reviewer knows something! Every reviewer will inevitably start to enter in his own likes and dislikes rather than staying totally objective.
E.g. They have just reviewed the new Panny PV GS500. Essentially this is the same cam, internally, as the GS 400 which was widely accepted to be the pinnacle of consumer DV Cams. Now the 500 scored better video performance than the 400 BUT Panasonic have stripped a lot of the "prosumer" features off the 400 for the 500 and dropped the price markedly. If you read the review you can tell the reviewers HATE the fact that Panasonic did that so you get the impression the cam is no so good. But if you go to the ratings page you find the 500 is number three behind the two Sony High Def cams!
Just quickly scan through each of the reviews to see if there is any "deal breaker" fault or feature with the cam. Something that would totally preclude you from getting it. E.g. The video is great, the sound is great and the cam has all the bells and whistles you want only the battery lasts three mnutes! That sort of thing.
Keep it objective and go by the test numbers and you will get a good cam.
Hope this helps...good luck!

[Vincej]

Please clarify someone - one of those 'everybody knows' statements is that you need a honking great big powerfull desktop to manage and render he data that comes off a 'high definition' camera. The ratio of 3:1 time to render versus a SD video - is this true ??

I have a dual processor Pentium 4 and it takes aprox 1.5 hours to render 60 mins of SD video - I woudl rather not go back to the bad old days when I needed 5 hours to render 60 minutes.

vincej

[lespurgeon]

Back to the original question...
I wuold agree a Sony HD-HCx would be first choice for a high-end consumer cam. (I really like my HC1). If looking for somethign in a better price range, I would look at tha Panasonic DV cams: PV-GS300 or PV-GS500.