I've purchased mf3 and downloaded the updates. What I've done is just follow the software and captured from my canon miniDV (0.6CCD),encoded straight to mpeg-2 ,edited and burned onto a dvd. I am burning about 1hour of video to DVD(mpeg2). When I went through the process with my clips and mf3 effects, I noticed that my clips had different capture configs(right click properties), a couple were 2500 and two others at 7000 all for DVD format. The quality of the 2500 clips were disturbing. The 7000 clips looked okay, nothing spectacular. My requirements are to have near quality DV results that look like they're straight off of my DV but on DVD. Questions to follow:
1) Can I expect near DV quality using mf3 only to convert to DVD from DV?
2) Pg.17(manual) suggests I can capture dv type-2 (firewire) and set capture to 'directshow capture plug-in' for AVI storage on the HDD (I assume). So can I now edit AVI then encode to give mpeg for better resolution? Would this option be better than going straight from DV to MPEG and then editing and burning?
3) Should I forget trying to do everything with mf3 to get great quality resolution and use other programs like 'tmpg..sp?"
4) Also, How do I figure out what bit rate values to use. The higher the better obviously. It seems that when I went straight from dv to mpeg, the software changed my settings as per my first paragraph with my knowing? The manual doesn't describe this very well.
MF3 general questions. Need assistance.
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thecoalman
For the best results capture to DV-AVI especially if your making many edits. Capturing is actually incorrect because you are in fact transferring when you use DV-AVI, it's a lossless transfer. You will get an exact copy of what's on your cam. But this DV-AVI needs to be converted to DVD compliant mpeg which always involves some loss of quality.
When you need to slect your template try around 6000kbps, that usually gives adequate quality for DV conversion and will allow you to fit some more footage on a single disc.
To answer your question yes you can get near DV quality. If you haven't already done so I'd suggest gewtting a RW, do a short transfer to AVI about a minute or two long. Preferably one with a lot of motion and convert the DV-AVi to different Bitrates to compare. With the 2 minute clip it won't take that long to produce a disc.
When you need to slect your template try around 6000kbps, that usually gives adequate quality for DV conversion and will allow you to fit some more footage on a single disc.
To answer your question yes you can get near DV quality. If you haven't already done so I'd suggest gewtting a RW, do a short transfer to AVI about a minute or two long. Preferably one with a lot of motion and convert the DV-AVi to different Bitrates to compare. With the 2 minute clip it won't take that long to produce a disc.
Re: MF3 general questions. Need assistance.
1) the encoder in MF3 is based on MainConcept's mpeg encoder -- it can produce excellent mpegs (imho)protocol_droid wrote: 1) Can I expect near DV quality using mf3 only to convert to DVD from DV?
2) Pg.17(manual) suggests I can capture dv type-2 (firewire) and set capture to 'directshow capture plug-in' for AVI storage on the HDD (I assume). So can I now edit AVI then encode to give mpeg for better resolution? Would this option be better than going straight from DV to MPEG and then editing and burning?
3) Should I forget trying to do everything with mf3 to get great quality resolution and use other programs like 'tmpg..sp?"
4) Also, How do I figure out what bit rate values to use. The higher the better obviously. It seems that when I went straight from dv to mpeg, the software changed my settings as per my first paragraph with my knowing? The manual doesn't describe this very well.
2)I would recomment capturing to dv .avi, and then encoding to mpeg as your last step
3) not needed if you capture to dv .avi, and let mf3 do your encoding for you
4) it looks like you might have captured SVCD and DVD (2500kbps for SVCD, and 7000kbps for DVD). The best thing is to know how many minutes your DVD will be, and then use a bitrate calculator like this one:
Bitrate Calculator
George
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protocol_droid
PAL or NTSC?
the audio is in the pulldown menu next to the "Audio Bitrate"
If you are using LPCM audio, then you should select the 1536kbps item. If using mpeg or Dolby Digital (AC3), then use whatever you use in your template settings (like 192 or 224, etc.).
Hit the ADVANCED tab in the top right corner to open up some more options.
NOTE: Dolby Digital audio should be good for NTSC and PAL discs. But mpeg audio is not an NTSC standard (so some NTSC DVD Players will not play mpeg audio. mpeg audio is ok for PAL DVD's).
If you are using LPCM audio, then you should select the 1536kbps item. If using mpeg or Dolby Digital (AC3), then use whatever you use in your template settings (like 192 or 224, etc.).
Hit the ADVANCED tab in the top right corner to open up some more options.
NOTE: Dolby Digital audio should be good for NTSC and PAL discs. But mpeg audio is not an NTSC standard (so some NTSC DVD Players will not play mpeg audio. mpeg audio is ok for PAL DVD's).
George
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thecoalman
DVD-RW, it's a DVD disc you can burn to multiple times. If your just getting started it's indespensible. Contrary to the commercials (e.g. the one where the woman does a couple of mouse clicks and wallah she's got DVD) DVD takes a little bit of learning. Doing short tests when your starting and comparing is a fundamental step. It's better to get to know the process and how it works before delving into actually making DVD's you want to keep. You could spend hours making a creation but if you have missed a crucial step in the beggining your entire project can be ruined.... better to make baby steps doing short tests on a RW.protocol_droid wrote:Coalman-
Sorry, what does RW mean? Thanks for the speedy replies guys.
BTW as George pointed out MPEG is not a DVD standard for NTSC. Use AC3 if you can, for high compression and compatibility. If you don't have AC3 capability in MF you try using MPEG to see if your standalone player will play it but be aware that it might not play on someone else's standalone player.
Edit: just add when yuor trying to gauge the quality of your results don't do it on your computer, do it on a TV.
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protocol_droid
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thecoalman
Yes, mpeg sound is an option. It's compressed like AC3 but as stated above isn't 100% compatible. Your other 100% comaptible choice is PCM but PCM takes up about 10 times the disc space as mpeg audio or AC3 which leaves you with less room for video.protocol_droid wrote: When you mentioned that mpeg is not a standard for ntsc, you're talking about sound now correct, not video, right? Thanks.
You can use it but again it may not play in some DVD players. Most new ones will support it.
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protocol_droid
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protocol_droid
messed around with some settings
Okay, so under capture video settings, I used avi as my format and pulled in a few minutes of DV.avi on my HDD twice (almost the same clip). I then took the second clip and just added a fade to black to one scene. When I right click prop. on the first clip, it shows it as an AVI file format wtih a data rate of 3637kpbs. The second clip with the fade to black is now showing project attributes as an mpeg file wtih a video data rate of 7000. Are these numbers supposed to be about the same? Does this avi to mpeg conversion normally occur when editing like this? I was under the impression I could edit the avi file and then still save my files as avi, albeit modified and at a later time, conver to mpeg-2. Also, when I get around this problem if it is, how can I just convert to mpeg-2 from avi and burn using a separate program. I know under the video save options, I can set data rates and audio formats. Does this automatically do it? Sorry for so many questions, I need logical waypoints to understand what's going on here. Thanks guys.
What software?
What software are you using to add the fade-to-black? Make sure to output using the same codec as your captured video (i.e. if you captured dv .avi, then output the file as *.avi using the DV codec).
After doing that, import the new *.avi file into MoveFactory, add your chapters and everything, select your encoding/project template, and burn the DVD to your hard drive. Use something like PowerDVD to play the DVD from your hard drive (it will be in a VIDEO_TS Folder).
After doing that, import the new *.avi file into MoveFactory, add your chapters and everything, select your encoding/project template, and burn the DVD to your hard drive. Use something like PowerDVD to play the DVD from your hard drive (it will be in a VIDEO_TS Folder).
George
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maddrummer3301
- Posts: 2507
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:24 pm
- Location: US
You are asking to get the highest possible video on a dvd as the original
camcorder is outputting. To do this and stay within the dvd-specs that
would be 1 hour of video on the dvd.
The most common setting in video for this is :
Variable Bit Rate = 8000kbs (8Mbs).
Audio = Dolby 16bit 48khz - 256kbs
These settings would yield a video_bit_rate of approx 7500kbs because
when you state VBR that is the Total of the video + Audio(average).
If you choose LPCM audio then the video quality would be lower
using the VBR hence 8000-1536 = 6464 (video_bit_rate).
That explains to you why using Dolby or Mpeg audio is used alot because
they take up less room in the overall video(data) stream.
If you change the encoding to Constant the formula changes the total
bit rate (8000 + 1536 = 9536).
That would be the total_bit_rate using a setting of :
Video_Bit_Rate = Constant 8000
audio = 16bit 48khz stereo
The video bit rate of the DV.avi file should be approx 3600kbs
and the audio should be 16bit 48khz when looking at the properties of
the Dv.avi file. Do not confuse that bit-rate with the Mpeg2 bit-rate.
The DV codec is reporting BYTES and Mpeg2 files are reporting BITS.
You should create a Dvd/Mpeg2 template to match the settings for the
final Mpeg2 file that will be written to the dvd. Use the icon on the bottom
left of the screen to create a template. Then use the GEAR icon to Apply
the new custom Template.
If re-encoding a Dv file use "Lower_Field_First -> Field A".
When a person is new to video they should record and work with 10
minute videos to learn. One should use a +RW rewriteable disk so
you can reuse the disk over and over again for testing. This way you
don't waste DVD-R or +R disks.
This info may help you:
1. Make sure your camcorder is always set to record the audio at
16bit 48khz stereo. Stay away from the 12 bit setting. The 12 bit
setting uses 32khz sampling. Dvd's are 16bit 48khz audio.
After you have copied/recorded a dv.avi file to your harddisk check
the properties of the file. Audio should say 16 bit 48khz.
When transferring DV to the harddisk manually start the camcorder
and after video is shown on the preview screen for approx 5 secs then
hit the record button. You want to start the recording from a good
stable stream. The beginning of dv streams can have errors at the start
of the tape. Depending on the camcorder if you hit record from the
absolute beginning of the tape sometimes the wrong audio information
gets reccorded into the file. These wrong audio settings in the file cause
MF3 to re-encode the audio incorrectly. You can always record the DV.avi
file from the camcorder to the computer using most any video program.
Then IMPORT that file into MF3. MovieFactory 3 is BEST at making the
dvd and NOT actually re-encoding the dvd. It will DO this but the preferred
method by many Ulead users is to record and edit in VideoStudio 8 and
create a dvd compliant file. Then use MF3 to create the dvd.
One last tip:
The outside edge of recordable dvd's is usually the area most prone to
have errors. It's usually best to keep the video file at approx 3.8 to 4gigs
to retain a safe area on the disk. Sometimes a simple small fingerprint
on the disk (usually caused by handling and the fingers overlapping the dvd)
will cause this.
Hope this helps,
MD
camcorder is outputting. To do this and stay within the dvd-specs that
would be 1 hour of video on the dvd.
The most common setting in video for this is :
Variable Bit Rate = 8000kbs (8Mbs).
Audio = Dolby 16bit 48khz - 256kbs
These settings would yield a video_bit_rate of approx 7500kbs because
when you state VBR that is the Total of the video + Audio(average).
If you choose LPCM audio then the video quality would be lower
using the VBR hence 8000-1536 = 6464 (video_bit_rate).
That explains to you why using Dolby or Mpeg audio is used alot because
they take up less room in the overall video(data) stream.
If you change the encoding to Constant the formula changes the total
bit rate (8000 + 1536 = 9536).
That would be the total_bit_rate using a setting of :
Video_Bit_Rate = Constant 8000
audio = 16bit 48khz stereo
The video bit rate of the DV.avi file should be approx 3600kbs
and the audio should be 16bit 48khz when looking at the properties of
the Dv.avi file. Do not confuse that bit-rate with the Mpeg2 bit-rate.
The DV codec is reporting BYTES and Mpeg2 files are reporting BITS.
You should create a Dvd/Mpeg2 template to match the settings for the
final Mpeg2 file that will be written to the dvd. Use the icon on the bottom
left of the screen to create a template. Then use the GEAR icon to Apply
the new custom Template.
If re-encoding a Dv file use "Lower_Field_First -> Field A".
When a person is new to video they should record and work with 10
minute videos to learn. One should use a +RW rewriteable disk so
you can reuse the disk over and over again for testing. This way you
don't waste DVD-R or +R disks.
This info may help you:
1. Make sure your camcorder is always set to record the audio at
16bit 48khz stereo. Stay away from the 12 bit setting. The 12 bit
setting uses 32khz sampling. Dvd's are 16bit 48khz audio.
After you have copied/recorded a dv.avi file to your harddisk check
the properties of the file. Audio should say 16 bit 48khz.
When transferring DV to the harddisk manually start the camcorder
and after video is shown on the preview screen for approx 5 secs then
hit the record button. You want to start the recording from a good
stable stream. The beginning of dv streams can have errors at the start
of the tape. Depending on the camcorder if you hit record from the
absolute beginning of the tape sometimes the wrong audio information
gets reccorded into the file. These wrong audio settings in the file cause
MF3 to re-encode the audio incorrectly. You can always record the DV.avi
file from the camcorder to the computer using most any video program.
Then IMPORT that file into MF3. MovieFactory 3 is BEST at making the
dvd and NOT actually re-encoding the dvd. It will DO this but the preferred
method by many Ulead users is to record and edit in VideoStudio 8 and
create a dvd compliant file. Then use MF3 to create the dvd.
One last tip:
The outside edge of recordable dvd's is usually the area most prone to
have errors. It's usually best to keep the video file at approx 3.8 to 4gigs
to retain a safe area on the disk. Sometimes a simple small fingerprint
on the disk (usually caused by handling and the fingers overlapping the dvd)
will cause this.
Hope this helps,
MD
VBR
MD, nice writeup 
The only thing I would question is your VBR example. Granted, different encoders (and implementations of the same encoder in different packages) will treat VBR settings differently. For instance, some software would let you define a Min/Max/Avg for VBR, while other software lets you input one bitrate to indicate the MaX (or Avg).
Ulead's implemenation of VBR lets you assign a MAX value (although if you get the Advanced settings to show, you can set the Min/Max/Avg separately).
Either way, the VBR bitrate is for the Video only (whether it's the Max or Avg bitrate), and the audio selection type does not come into play. It just gets added on top of the encoded video stream.
Unless for some reason Ulead is taking into account the audio??? (I'll have to run some tests later tonight).
The only thing I would question is your VBR example. Granted, different encoders (and implementations of the same encoder in different packages) will treat VBR settings differently. For instance, some software would let you define a Min/Max/Avg for VBR, while other software lets you input one bitrate to indicate the MaX (or Avg).
Ulead's implemenation of VBR lets you assign a MAX value (although if you get the Advanced settings to show, you can set the Min/Max/Avg separately).
Either way, the VBR bitrate is for the Video only (whether it's the Max or Avg bitrate), and the audio selection type does not come into play. It just gets added on top of the encoded video stream.
Unless for some reason Ulead is taking into account the audio??? (I'll have to run some tests later tonight).
George
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maddrummer3301
- Posts: 2507
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:24 pm
- Location: US
George,
Your right, other programs let a person fine tune and calculate that.
Ulead makes it easy so a compliant file is created.
The tests to determine that result were taken from videos recorded
at 2 hour lengths and the files had to be within 3.8 to 4.1gig
so it was much easier to calculate the total bytes of the file
by using Constant bit-rate (end result).
(many of the videos were also between 90 & 110 minutes that needed
to fall within the 3.8 to 4.1 gig file size).
The tests were done recording actual video and not re-rendering
existing material (used real-time compression). The results were
based on the resulting file sizes.
The Overall_Total_Bit_Rate of the data stream fell close to the
Variable_Bit_Rate setting that ulead uses. If Constant bit rate was
used then then audo climbed on top of the video and the resulting
Overall_Total_Bit_Rate of the data stream was much higher than
variable and the files were over 4.1gig.
Ulead has also made some changes to the encoder engine since those
tests and videos were produced.
Truly a video should be run through a program that can analyze
the video prior to encoding.
It would be nice to see Ulead add a MAX bit rate to their template creator.
I will have to go back and look at the notes taken from those tests and
that project.
MD
Your right, other programs let a person fine tune and calculate that.
Ulead makes it easy so a compliant file is created.
The tests to determine that result were taken from videos recorded
at 2 hour lengths and the files had to be within 3.8 to 4.1gig
so it was much easier to calculate the total bytes of the file
by using Constant bit-rate (end result).
(many of the videos were also between 90 & 110 minutes that needed
to fall within the 3.8 to 4.1 gig file size).
The tests were done recording actual video and not re-rendering
existing material (used real-time compression). The results were
based on the resulting file sizes.
The Overall_Total_Bit_Rate of the data stream fell close to the
Variable_Bit_Rate setting that ulead uses. If Constant bit rate was
used then then audo climbed on top of the video and the resulting
Overall_Total_Bit_Rate of the data stream was much higher than
variable and the files were over 4.1gig.
Ulead has also made some changes to the encoder engine since those
tests and videos were produced.
Truly a video should be run through a program that can analyze
the video prior to encoding.
It would be nice to see Ulead add a MAX bit rate to their template creator.
I will have to go back and look at the notes taken from those tests and
that project.
MD