Unexplained momentary Disc freeze

erock1 · Post by **erock1** » Fri May 12, 2006 1:46 pm

I'm hoping someone might have a suggestion or solution to an odd problem I just started experiencing.

I am using VS9

Problem:
I capture from my Sony digital Hi8 (TVR120) camcorder to PC via Firewire OK (no dropped frames or errors). I render the DV-.avi files to a DVD .mpeg2 compliant file OK. I author and burn to DVD-R disc without any apparent problems. *Upon playing back the DVD on 2 different TV DVD players, I notice a very short (1/2 sec or so) freeze and then the DVD continues without problem.

What I've tried:
I went back and previewed the original captured DV-.avi files in VS9 timeline. I especially looked closely at the sopt(s) where the freeze(s) occured. I did not notice any freeze, stop or pause. I next previewed the rendered .mpeg2 in VS9 & Windows Media Player. Again, I didn't notice any problem. I rendered the DV-.avi files to a new .mpeg2, previewed both, no problems. Burned to disc, freeze occured at different points. I tried using 1X & 4X DVD-R media, same problem. One point of interest, all DVD discs that had the momentary freeze played without the freeze on my PC's DVD player?

Specs
PC
VS9 on a Dell E510 PC, OS: XP Home w/ SP2, Processor: Pent. D 820 @2.80Hz, Memory: 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz, HDDS: 250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s (7200RPM) w/ 8MB cache, Video Card: 256MB PCI Express x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon X600 SE HyperMemory, DVD Writer:16x DVD+/-RW w/dbl layer write capability, Model: (HL-DT-ST DVD+ -RW GWA4164B)

NTSC
.avi file specs
MS AVI OpenDML, 29.970 fps

MPEG2 Specs
MPEG2 Lower Field First, 720 x480, 16:9, 29.970 fps, VBR 8000kbps, Audio Dolby 256kbps

Project Settings
Quality-70, No-2 pass encoding, No-DVD-VR compliant, Yes-do not convert compliant mpeg, Yes-treat mpeg audio

Preference in Create Disc
No-VCD Compliant, Yes-Perform non-pixel rendering, Yes-Resume all confirmation dialog boxes, No-max menu size, Yes-Clear cache

About my DVD Writer
I tried to see if the burner was set to DMA and could not find any indication in the drives properties under the OS Device Manager?

Any help is appreciated.
TIA,
Erock1

TDK1044 · Post by **TDK1044** » Fri May 12, 2006 3:47 pm

MPEG2 Specs
MPEG2 Lower Field First, 720 x480, 16:9, 29.970 fps, VBR 8000kbps, Audio Dolby 256kbps

The VBR at 8000kbps may be your problem. Some domestic stand alone DVD players stutter at a VBR higher than 6000kps. I had this issue at 8000kbps. but I have never had it happen at 6000kbps and the quality is still good.

erock1 · Post by **erock1** » Fri May 12, 2006 6:14 pm

TDK1044 wrote: The VBR at 8000kbps may be your problem. Some domestic stand alone DVD players stutter at a VBR higher than 6000kps. I had this issue at 8000kbps. but I have never had it happen at 6000kbps and the quality is still good.

Thanks Terry.
I've never had a problem with any of the other DVDs I created using a VBR of 8000. Actually this VBR is part of my standard templates. I only time lower rate is when I'm trying to fit more material on to a standard 4.7GB disc. I will however give it a try tonight. I sure hope it works.

kebrinton · Post by **kebrinton** » Fri May 12, 2006 6:21 pm

TDK --

Nice presentation of a problem! If only all problems were so clearly described and so carefully checked.

Now I'm not going to burn any more DVDs at 8000. I've occasionally noted the stutter but wasn't as analytical as you.

K

TDK1044 · Post by **TDK1044** » Fri May 12, 2006 6:30 pm

Thanks, K.

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Fri May 12, 2006 6:34 pm

I can't believe that VBR 8000 Kbps is causing the problem. Most of us have been making DVD at 8000 for years.

I would suspect the DVD players. Have they been used a lot? Are they the same make/model?

TDK1044 · Post by **TDK1044** » Fri May 12, 2006 6:38 pm

Me too, John, but I had this problem twice, and both times a re-burn at 6000 solved it when re burning at 8000 didn't. I can't explain why.

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Fri May 12, 2006 8:18 pm

jchunter wrote:I can't believe that VBR 8000 Kbps is causing the problem. Most of us have been making DVD at 8000 for years.

I would suspect the DVD players. Have they been used a lot? Are they the same make/model?

You are suspecting the right culprit, DVD players are finicky things and constantly defy any logic. They vary widely in what they can play and what not.

erock1 · Post by **erock1** » Sat May 13, 2006 1:10 am

John & Heinz-Oz, thanks for the feedback.
Both players are fairly new and have played everything I've put in them including all of the DVDs I've created. I'm tending to think that somehow it's my new burner. The PC that I provided the specs for in my original post is brand spankin new, less than 2 months. I've never ever had a problem like this before and I've been burning DVDs since VS6.

I'm going to try the VS9 Cd/DVD burning patch, V.3.6.19.281, dated 7/27/05 and the VS9 update patch for DL burner suppoort, dated 8/12/05. I'll create a restor point first just in case I have to turn the clock back.

Thanks again,
Erock

erock1 · Post by **erock1** » Sat May 13, 2006 4:34 am

erock1 wrote: I'm going to try the VS9 Cd/DVD burning patch, V.3.6.19.281, dated 7/27/05 and the VS9 update patch for DL burner suppoort, dated 8/12/05. I'll create a restore point first just in case I have to turn the clock back.
Thanks again,
Erock

It didn't work. I installed both and the same result. I again tried burning the .mpeg2 file onve to a 1X disc and a 4x disc. The freeze occurs in the same spot on both. Again I tried it on my PC's DVD player and no freeze?

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Sat May 13, 2006 4:57 am

VBR 8000kbps could have spots that "spiked" too high (above your stated max). This might cause a problem during playback.

Do a search on the web for a bitrate viewer bv.exe utility, and check if the area in question has a high bitrate.

Or playback your dvd using PowerDVD on your computer. Use the option to "Show Info" during playback -- this will show you the bitrate of your video to see if it is "spiking"

Regards,
George

Alexander · Post by **Alexander** » Sat May 13, 2006 8:25 am

Try to set VBR when capture and "costant bit rate"when burn. it works fine on my tv dvd player.

Alexander · Post by **Alexander** » Sat May 13, 2006 8:36 am

And if doesn't work try to burn first on hard disk folder then use your dvd burning software (is better of ulead burner).

erock1 · Post by **erock1** » Sat May 13, 2006 12:25 pm

GeorgeW wrote:VBR 8000kbps could have spots that "spiked" too high (above your stated max). This might cause a problem during playback.

Do a search on the web for a bitrate viewer bv.exe utility, and check if the area in question has a high bitrate.

Or playback your dvd using PowerDVD on your computer. Use the option to "Show Info" during playback -- this will show you the bitrate of your video to see if it is "spiking"
Regards,
George

George, thanks for the suggestion and lead for a bitrate viewer. I always wondered if there was a way to find out what BR was being used at a specific time in a movie during play back. Even if the BR isn't the
problem, I'll be glad to have the knowledge and prog, Thanks!

Alexander wrote:And if doesn't work try to burn first on hard disk folder then use your dvd burning software (is better of ulead burner).

Thanks Alexander, creating a disc image or video folders and using another burning prog was my next step. BTW, I just tried rendering my DV-.avi files to 6000kbps and burning the DVD using the same properties as was suggested earlier on. It didn't work and resolution was noticeably lower quality.

Thanks everyone, I'm still trying. I have my daughter's school play to finish for the PTA to sell and this problem while might not be that big of a deal or very noticeable to some, it's something that's not acceptable by me.
If nothing I try works, I'll swap this 16X burner that my new PC came with for my old tried and true Sony DRU5100. I've burned 1,000s of DVDs with it and it has never missed a beat!

erock1 · Post by **erock1** » Mon May 15, 2006 3:07 pm

I just wanted to provide an update to the problem I've been experiencing. As I stated this past Saturday, 5/13, I was going to create Video Folders and a Disc Image instead of rendering to a video file. I did just that and used other burn progs than Ulead burning software. The problem still occured when using these other methods.

As I said I reasoned that the only logical next step in my troubleshooting was to burn my DVD using another burner than the unit that came with my new Dell. Originally I was going to swap burners but decided not to as this might void my new Dell warranty. Instead I just rendered my original DV-.avi files to a new .MPEG2 file and transfered this to a portable hard drive. I then imported the file to my old PC's hard drive which still has VS9 installed on it.

I launched VS9 and went to Share tab, imported the video file, added my menus and sound tracks and proceeded to burn to a 4X DVD. Well the resulting DVD played on both of my DVD players without any freeze at all, VBR 8000 setting and all!!!

When I get a chance I will run a drive tool I have to identify the manufacturer and model of the new Dell burner and see if there is any new drivers or firmware available. I will be calling Dell for them to make this right.

Thanks for the suggestions

Update: 5/16/06
My drive tool (InfoTool by Nero) ID'd the burner as a Hitachi/LG. Unfortunately, Hitachi does not provide firmware , patches or updates . They refer you to the manufacturer of the PC. A check of Dell's update site did not find anything available. I called Dell customer service and after letting them know the problem I was having with the burner and the troubleshooting I did, their sending me a new DVD burner. They even offered to send a tech to install. This was painless, no fuss, no muss

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