MSP 8 Bug: Thumbnails fall out of sync with actual video

[pennstat]

First off, I want to say that I love MSP 8. It was a bit of a learning curve, having been using MSP 5.2 through 7 for over 10 years, but I think it's a really slick improvement over MSP 7. Definitely one of my better software purchases so far this year.

Anyway, I am currently working on a project that has a lot of cross-fades, overlay options, and video clips that were trimmed through the Source window. I've noticed that as early as the second DV clip (NTSC source) the video in the thumbnails is NOT the same as the video of that particular time scale. Whereas this is not devastating because the video in the Preview window is correct, it does make it annoying when attempting to line up cross-fades or cut to a different scene on sight because I then have to rely on the Preview display for positioning.

The only time that the thumbnails are in sync with the actual video is when the ruler mode is set to 1 frame. Even in other frame modes that are less than one second, the thumbnails are out of sync with the actual video.

I have already applied the hot fix and flash update and they don't address the issue. I've not seen any other posts, so I don't know if anyone else has seen this or taken noice of it.

[Devil]

Is this different from earlier versions? I don't think so. The thumbnails (if you choose to have them) are not meant for editing purposes but as an aide-memoire to what is on the clip. It's clear that, if your are zoomed to 1 second, you have 25 or 30 frames under one thumbnail, so it's evident that you cannot see what is happening without scrubbing.

[ddima]

I have the same problem. Esspecially on the long clip, I'm currently editing ~30 min avi, cutting it in many small clips,rearranging and inserting transitions.
Off sync can be up to few seconds in a 5 sec zoom.

Please let me know if you find the solution, it's very annoying for me as well.

[Devil]

To help cutting long clips on the timeline, you may find it easier to simply do an initial rough edit by playing it in the Source window and using the F5 key to mark an approximate track cue. After clicking on the check mark, you can then use PgUp and PgDwn keys to quickly go through the cue marks, pressing U to separate them, eliminate the waste footage without ripple, dragging the segment ends to the exact point where you want the cut to take place, dragging the segments where you want transitions and then Find empty time slots to meld the lot together. You can then do the fine editing.

This is just another way of doing the same thing but you may find it a lot quicker than using thumbnails to find a frame, especially because you do not have to use filmstrip mode which is always slower to refresh. You can even use filename mode, which is the fastest.

[ddima]

Thanks,
but I'm actually already have cut my clips and now try to rearrange them. Problem is that fist thumbnail in the clip is misleading for it content.
Anyway thanks for yor suggestion, I may use it other time.
It's really surprising - is it only two of us who have the problem or other doesn't notice it?

[Gorf]

First off, I want to say that I love MSP 8. It was a bit of a learning curve, having been using MSP 5.2 through 7 for over 10 years, but I think it's a really slick improvement over MSP 7. Definitely one of my better software purchases so far this year.

I can't help with your problem, but I just thought I'd mention how reassuring it was to read the above. I've just got MSP8, but have only toyed with it a little while finishing the current project in MSP7.3. It does look like it will take some getting used to, but it's gratifying to know that the change (when I get around to it) will be worth it.

[Devil]

Thanks,
but I'm actually already have cut my clips and now try to rearrange them. Problem is that fist thumbnail in the clip is misleading for it content.
Anyway thanks for yor suggestion, I may use it other time.
It's really surprising - is it only two of us who have the problem or other doesn't notice it?

We see it, but consider it of minor importance. Just think: if you have the timeline zoom set to e.g., 5 seconds, each thumbnail contains 125 frames (PAL). Which one of those should be seen in the thumbnail? There may be two transitions in those 5 seconds, so should it show the first frame (which it does), something from the middle or the last frame? Whatever would be chosen would be wrong for somebody, probably everybody! So, if you place the playhead on any one of the 125 frames except the first, the thumbnail cannot be the same as the preview. IOW, there are better ways of precise editing than using the thumbnails. I very rarely use filmstrip mode, except for visual synchronising when I haven't cued the clips (and it's easier to do this with cues.

[ddima]

Devil
As you described it won't be a problem for me, but in my case it shows the thumbnail picture of the frame from -3 seconds from the start of the clip. Which is the frame from the previous clip, which could be somewhere else, in this particular project I have clips shuffled around a lot.
And the problem is not in cutting it, I do use the preview window for that mostly, bt searching for the clips.
At least now I know that its not just my bug and pointless to look for a solution, hopefuly next SP will solve it.

[pennstat]

Is this different from earlier versions? I don't think so.

I never had this issue with MSP 5.2VE through 7 or else I would not have bothered to mention it. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that the "know-it-all smart a$$" attitude that I perceived from your post was due to the two-dimensional nature of posted messages.

The thumbnails (if you choose to have them) are not meant for editing purposes but as an aide-memoire to what is on the clip. It's clear that, if your are zoomed to 1 second, you have 25 or 30 frames under one thumbnail, so it's evident that you cannot see what is happening without scrubbing.

The thumbnails/filmstrip frames were always in sync with the first frame of that time unit in previous versions, even back to 5.2VE. I highly doubt that I'm the only one who encountered that throughout the years.

Additionally, it is not showing a thumbnail from that section of frames. It's showing a thumbnail from 2-3 seconds previous.

Is this diffrent from previous versions? I do think so. It's by no means a major issue; however, I just wanted to make Ulead aware of it.

*sigh*

[pennstat]

I can't help with your problem, but I just thought I'd mention how reassuring it was to read the above. I've just got MSP8, but have only toyed with it a little while finishing the current project in MSP7.3. It does look like it will take some getting used to, but it's gratifying to know that the change (when I get around to it) will be worth it.

The biggest changes that I've noticed are the mirror placements of the audio and video clips on the timeline (as opposed to the "parallel" effect of previous versions) and the fades from one clip to another using the "overlapping" function. But I *really* love how you can now fade between multiple segments instead of just A<>B. That alone made my latest project a lot easier to work with.

And $199 for the downloable upgrade? Pfft! This purchase was a no brainer. I'm waiting for the Media Studio Pro 8 book to be available in print (I don't like e-books) and then it's MINE!

[pennstat]

Voluntarily removed post. I'm giving Devil the benefit of the doubt that his posts are not as ascerbic as they seem (to which I was responding in kind) but that they just appear that way due to the 2D nature of message boards. But my ascerbic attitude is in stand-by mode just in case.

[pennstat]

Not a new post. I hit "quote" instead of "edit" and didn't catch it until I submitted it.

Nothing to see here. Please move along.

[Devil]

1. I've no intention to be acerbic, but I try to be brief.

2. Charlie Hill's book has been available in print for a few weeks now. It is excellent.

3. I've been unsuccessful at reproducing the effect you describe. To do so, I've put on the timeline some raw DV type 1 footage in Thumbnail mode. I "moused" the playhead to a distinct cut between two scenes and pressed U. The two resultant thumbnails always showed the first frame before and after the cut. I tried it at several zoom levels and several frames before and after the transition. Every time, it was as expected.

I tried the same in v. 7.3, except that I used S and not U: same results.

I'm not saying you're wrong, because I have occasionally seen in the past a difference and I'm reasonably sure I have seen it in earlier versions, as well as 8.0. All I'm saying is that I wasn't able to see it with 20 minutes of testing. Can you give a sure-fire way of creating it?

However, I do not have the same version on MSP8 installed as you do. I don't think that is an issue though, because there is no mention of the problem in the documentation. Notwithstanding, I'll ask for confirmation.

[ddima]

I've tried to reproduce and actually found that it's very simple.
Have tried with one 22 minutes long and one 24 sec long clip. Project is DV Pal. Zoom is set to 5 sec.
New project - put one clip on the timeline at 00:00.
1st thumbnail shows frame from 00:00, 2nd from 05:00 etc.
Take the clip and drag it along the timeline for 2 seconds (to start at 02:00).
Thumbnails are NOT updated, just moved by one thumbnail to the right.
New first thumbnil which is short (ony 3 sec) is equal to old 1st, new 2nd equal to old 1st, new 3rd to old 2nd etc.
Which means that now the thumbnail at 05:00 show the frame from 02:00 (first frame of the clip), thumbnail at 10:00 shows frame from 07:00 etc.

Hope my writing is not too complicated to understand.
I would be interested to know if anybody can reproduce it.

[mmponline]

I had a similar case. I needed to cut an already edited video with 2 cameras on the precise place where the 2 cameras are changed. Reason: The one camera's lighting was darker than the other, so I wanted to put a filter on the darker clips. I had to scale to one frame setting to see the exact place to clip. (Had to find exact place as the lighter clips would be even lighter if not precise) My job was made easier by the split screen in the preview window that shows the adjacent frames...

But you're right, I used this same method in MSP7 and earlier, and it was more accurate at wider time frames.