Converting NTSC to Pal in MF4: questions

nyco_ork · Post by **nyco_ork** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:22 pm

I have a friend I've made a couple of discs for, in NTSC. He'd like the same programs in PAL for his relatives in Europe. I tried converting the project to PAL by changing the default setting, but the project size jumped from 4.05 gig to 6.5 gig, which won't fit on a single disc.

Question 1 is, why is the project size changing so radically? I've already burned the NTSC disc, with no problem.

Question 2 is, once I sort out the file size problem, how do I set the resulting DVD for Region 0 or All Regions? His family can't play it if it's Region 1.

I also have a few discs that are in PAL that I'd like to convert to NTSC, so I guess I have the same questions in reverse.

Do I have to get a separate conversion program?

Richard

Project settings:
Video was capture in the Pioneer MN24 mode, which captures a file size that will hold 100 minutes on a single disc. The clip properties are listed as variable, 9496 kbps max, in MF 4. But the 9496 is simply the Pioneer highest rate. The actual burned DVD plays back at around 5.8bps. Is it possible that with the change to PAL, MF 4 is trying to use the actual 9496 setting? I could try altering the bitrate header flag in VideoReDo, but I'm not sure of what setting I should use, and since there's no problem with NTSC, I don't want to foul the file up in other ways.

Capture device: Pioneer PRV9200 standalone (gave up on my capture card)

Edits: VideoReDo
Authoring: MF 4.

"Compliant MPEG" is checked.

Computer: IBM A31p Thinkpad, Matshita or NEC 8x burner

nyco_ork · Post by **nyco_ork** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:53 pm

Here's an additional part of this query: Has anyone on this forum used a program called Blaze for doing conversions? It claims to be able to convert NTSC<>PAL, MPEG<>AVI, WMA, etc., as well as audio conversions. From the blurbs it looks as though it operates on the basic MPEG file, not on the TS file structure, so all the menus and edits in MF4 would be lost, and the disc would have to be re-authored for the PAL version, rather than merely converted and copied.

I'm curious if anyone has tried Blaze. URL is http://www.blazemp.com/

Richard

Post by **Ron P.** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:29 pm

Richard,

I ran the trial version of Blaze several years ago. It seemed like a good program. At the time I was mainly interested in the audio conversions. It does have a trial version, so download it and try it out.. Also I looked over the site and could not find where it claimed to convert NTSC-PAL or vise-versa...

Ron P.

nyco_ork · Post by **nyco_ork** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:44 am

vidoman wrote:Richard,

I looked over the site and could not find where it claimed to convert NTSC-PAL or vise-versa...

Ron P.

Ron, it's in the left column, fifth bullet above the "Combination audio and video capabilities" header.

The links says: "Convert between PAL and NTSC video standards using the software's video converter feature"

If you follow the link, there's a whole page on it.

R

Post by **Ron P.** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:56 am

Ok, I found it...

I think they could do the webpage a bit better, so things are easier to read and find..

Ron P.

nyco_ork · Post by **nyco_ork** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:28 am

You're sure right about that.

R

maddrummer3301 · Post by **maddrummer3301** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:09 am

>>>>Question 1 is, why is the project size changing so radically? I've already burned the NTSC disc, with no problem.
Answer:
Because the mpeg video file isn't dvd compliant anymore. Your telling the program to use a different frame-rate and frame-size. Therefore MovieFactory will use the "PROJECT SETTINGS" to re-render the video to the new PAL dvd compliant settings.
Example:
If I import a mpeg2 file (NTSC) that has a video_bit_rate of 4000kbs and it's one hour long that would be approx 2gigs. Changing the settings to PAL would force the video to be re-rendered to the PAL Dvd Compliant Specs. To do that MovieFactory will use the "Project Settings" to re-render the video to. The default "Project Settings" is usually 8000kbs therefore the meter bar on the bottom will now say 4gigs instead of 2 gig. To correct this you change the "Project Settings" to match the source video settings "Video_Bit_Rate" and audio properties.

>>>>Question 2 is, once I sort out the file size problem, how do I set the resulting DVD for Region 0 or All Regions? His family can't play it if it's Region 1.
I'm pretty sure MF doesn't set a region.

>>>I also have a few discs that are in PAL that I'd like to convert to NTSC, so I guess I have the same questions in reverse.
I can't type in reverse.

>>>Do I have to get a separate conversion program?
ABSOLUTELY NOT

The exporting module is very powerful, when you export manually or even project properties always under the "COMPRESSION" tab is the FORMAT. The compression Format is the Top drop-down box.
You can select PAL DVD or NTSC DVD under the compression tab. So that would be the manual method of converting the file which is actually a more reliable method.

Hope this helps,

MD

nyco_ork · Post by **nyco_ork** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:28 am

MD, thanks for the response.

I'lll try your suggestions and see how they work out.

I just found out how to determine the region number: in the WinDVD player, going to Setup>Information shows the region code on the DVD. You're right, MF4 is not setting a region.

I'll try the NTSC>PAL conversion Saturday. Don't have time tonight or tomorrow.

Richard

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:26 am

Please view:
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=11847

nyco_ork · Post by **nyco_ork** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:38 am

Steve, thanks for the link. I foresee a problem for me, since my files come in as MPEGs, and the author says the process won't work for MPEG to MPEG. I'll have to see how to get files into AVI for that conversion. Maybe my friend's relatives won't get a PAL disc. There's a limit to time I can spend on favors.

R

Post by **lancecarr** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:49 am

Hi!
I wrote that tutorial, as you can see, for the purpose mainly of a PAL to NTSC DV AVI conversion. I have been meaning to update it but haven't got around to it yet.
I tried the Blaze software you mentioned and came up with pretty ordinary results compared to the procedure using VS9.
Any conversion is going to either decimate frames or pad frames to get the Frames Per Second correct and maintain sync with the audio. VS9 does a pretty good job considering it is not designed specifically to do that. I would think that MF4 can do the same.
There is another section of the tips'n'tricks section that allows you to expose the "Advanced" options of the MPEG codec here:
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=10880
I think if you read that and tweak the MPEG encoder accordingly you can probably get a pretty good conversion of MPEG to MPEG.

nyco_ork · Post by **nyco_ork** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:42 am

Lance,

Thanks. I followed the link, and it looks like it could be a great help. After I've persuaded the advanced options t show up, I'll give it a try.

R

P.S. (Later) edited the INI, got the advanced stuff to show up. I'll play with this when I have a chance. Many thanks.

R

GregK · Post by **GregK** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:40 pm

I was searching for an answer to a PAL conversion question I had with DMF 6 (which I have), and found this thread, but I'm not 100% certain what I found here will answer my question, so...

If I understand correctly, DMF will automatically convert from PAL to NTSC based on my project settings and program Preferences?

I have a PAL format DVD I would like to convert to NTSC (hopefully, if I can, even reinsert the resulting VOB files back into the original disc's VIDEO_TS folder and have an NTSC disc...I also use VOB Blanker which I can change the IFO information so it will know these are NTSC files). I imported the files from my drive into DMF, and the imported MPEG is being shown as "PAL DVD". In my program preferences, I have TV Type set for NTSC all the time. The imported file also reads as Upper Field First, and I made sure my project settings are set to the same. I also noticed that the default Compression settings were set to 90% quality, and I've since changed that to 100% (will the 10% difference make that much difference?), but do I necessarily need to use Two-Pass Conversion?

I'm now assuming that whatever I produce (at the moment I'm running this off as an ISO file just to check it out) will be converted from PAL to NTSC? Right now, DMF is saying "Converting video of the title", so I assume it's performing the necessary conversion from PAL to NTSC in all aspects required for such a conversion (the frame size/720x480, fields, etc...whatever. I don't recall all the differences between PAL and NTSC at the moment). I do also realize I'll lose the original chapter stops, but at the moment that's not a big issue....the conversion is my first concern. I can always add stops in DMF.

Sorry for dragging this old thread up again, and for my long reply, but I really wanted to find out for sure how this will work. Thanks.

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:09 pm

It won't do it properly.

It's not just frame size and frame rate its the way the colour/luminance/chrominace signal is carried, the frequency, black burst.

If you convert the files properly, you still can't insert them into the video_ts folder and expect it to work.

How are you going to check it?
Do you have an NTSC player and tv.

If this is for a relative to watch then I'd suggest making a pal copy and send it to them to watch on their pc, or see if their tv/dvd player will play a pseudo PAL signal, lots of the new ones do these days, depending on where it is going.

GregK · Post by **GregK** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:12 pm

Thanks, Graham....I guess that reinserting them back into the original disc isn't that important, because when DMF finished what I was doing, I checked the resulting VIDEO_TS folder and DMF did indeed covert the imported files into NTSC, and I already played the files back and it looks perfect. I guess trying to keep the original DVD menus and all isn't that important...it was the movie itself I was really concerned with.

I have an NTSC tv (Panasonic HDTV) and players, but my DVD recorder will play PAL format (so it seems)...on occasion I've tried using a "masking" trick with VOB Blanker to change the IFO information from PAL to NTSC, but this "trick" doesn't always work with all players. Except for my recorder, my other players tell me the resulting discs (which I've tried this trick on) can't be played, but my recorder will play them....so I've never really concerned myself with PAL format too much because I have at least one machine that will play the format (not that I have that much PAL to begin with).

Will keep playing around with what I mentioned in my first post just to see what happens, anyway...Thanks for the feedback.