Editing DVD-RW and DVD-R disks from set-top DVD recorder

[Steve__A]

I got a Toshiba D-VR3SU DVD recorder last month and have burned a bunch of DVD-RW's and DVD-R's, some of which I would like to edit. The Toshiba records the audio as AC3 Dolby Digital and offers several different formats for the recordings. If I use DVD-RW media I can format the disk as DVD-VR or DVD-V; if I use DVD-R media the disk will be formatted as DVD-V.

The DVD-V format uses the traditional VIDEO_TS folder with separate .VOB files while the DVD-VR format uses a VIDEO_RTAV folder with a single .VRO file.

In reading posts here and elsewhere it looks like the simplest way to import a recording would be to use the DVD-VR format and rename the VRO file to MPG (after copying it to my hard drive). There is an option to edit the DVD-VR disk itself without copying it to the hard drive but at this point I am not interested in that.

For disks recorded in the DVD-V format one method is to copy the VOB files to the hard drive and rename them as separate MPG files, piecing them together with UVS8. Another method would be to use the import DVD function, pointing UVS8 to the VIDEO_TS folder.

I have tried both methods for DVD-V disks and I end up with a bunch of small clips (5 minutes or shorter). This is a real pain since I then need to edit each clip separately. Is there a way to tell UVS8 not to break up DVD-D into scenes?

Any tips would be appreciated!

Steve

[maddrummer3301]

Steve,
If you want to import the video(s) and edit them then the way to go is
the -VR format.
There are a few things to know first and that is how a dvd is constructed.
Everytime you record a video on the dvd recorder it is 1 mpeg2 file on
the dvd. So, if you have separate recordings all that have started and
stopped then they are separate Mpeg2 files on the dvd.
You cannot import the 3 separate recordings as 1 large mpeg2 file.
They have to be imported and merged using the computer. Maybe
future dvd recorders that have a harddrive will add a merge feature.

Note: If during recording you PAUSE the recording the mpeg2 file is
still opened and will continue writing when you Un-pause it resulting in
1 mpeg2 file. Nice way to record a live show and cut out the commercials.
Of course one has to be watching the show at the sametime.

To answer your question can you answer these first?
1. If you have a 4gig file on the dvd (recorded in -VR mode) can you
copy the whole 4gig file to the harddrive using windows explorer
without getting an error? Must be at least a 4 gig file copied to an
NTFS partition.

2. In your instruction manual do you have the "Playlist" feature?
Creating a playlist can be very important.

MD

[Steve__A]

Maddrummer:

At least for -V mode it seems like the Toshiba recorder automatically inserts chapter breaks every 5 minutes, plus additional ones at the end of each VOB file. So if I try importing a 2 hour DVD-D into UVS8 it comes out in 23 different MPEG files. When I try to work with such a project UVS8 crashes.

For -VR mode all I need to do is copy the VRO file to my hard drive and then change the extension to MPG and I have a file that can be edited by any program that supports AC3.

I did find an article on-line which explains how to edit -V mode disks using DVD DeCrypter to join the various VOB files into a single file which you rename as MPG to edit in Womble MPEG-VCR:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/edit/recorder ... eredit.htm


The DVD-V mode is fine for using DVD-R media on projects that do not require editing- the media can be very inexpensive and it does not need to be initialized before recording. But as you recommended, DVD-VR is much simpler for any recordings that need to be edited.

Thanks!

Steve

P.S. I had tried earlier versions of Womble MPEG-VCR but the current version is very slick! It has the fastest interface for editing MPEG files... you can instantly select between 3 speeds going forward or backwards to quickly pinpoint the mark-in and mark-out points for your edits. It also uses a dithered display which is updated instantly as you move from frame to frame. Two thumbs up!

[maddrummer3301]

Steve,
The latest version of Nero 6 with the latest web updates can import the
complete video from dvd-media(non-copyprotected of course). It's alittle
slow but works. There are other programs by "Cyberlink" that can extract
the video from dvd's and Vr modes. Watch out installing Cyberlink products because they like to install the "Indeo" codec which can cause or
make Ulead not work. The "Indeo" installation program is very poor
programming. When asked to install say NO.

I've found on my system when importing a video file with dolby audio
and re-rendering to the same audio format (dolby 2/0) the program
can crash. When I change the settings to output Mpeg audio (Dolby to
Mpeg) it works without crashing. When you do alot of editing of the video
I would try disabling "Smart-Rendering" if the rendering process is creating
problems.

Renaming vob's or vro's doesn't always work correctly. Best to use a
program like dvddecrypter to split the mpeg2 files withing the vob file to
separate files.

Use of the playlist in a dvd recorder recording in -VR mode(dvd-rw):
If you record a video for 1 or 2 hours non-stop this will create 1 large
mpeg2 file on the dvd.
Using the playlist feature built-in to the dvd recorder you can select
anywhere in the dvd to play. Say I want to extract just the birthday
party and not the xmas dinner. I would mark the beginning of the
birthday party and the end of it. This would be defined within the playlist
as a "SCENE". When you import that 5 minute video you would select
"Playlist"(not "ALL" which is the top selection). The 5 minute video will
import as a Mpeg2 dvd-compliant file. If you define more "Scenes" in the
playlist then Ulead will import these as separate Mpeg2 files.
A very fast way to import a complete video that is dvd-compliant and
ready to burn is record non-stop on the recorder to create 1 mpeg2 file
on the dvd. You can trim the beginning or the end if needed to clean the
video up and it will still be 1 mpeg2 file.
Then create a playlist using the recorder and mark the beginning and
ending points as one scene.
Import this into Ulead and select "Playlist". The whole 4 gig file will be
imported. Then you can mark chapters and burn away.

The only bug which has been in a few ulead products is it's best after
importing the video to delete it from the "Timeline". Then re-import the
video from the harddrive. Sometimes Ulead will mark the file as non-dvd
compliant when it is a dvd-compliant file. So re-importing the file fixes that
problem. Otherwise, in the burning module Ulead will attempt to re-encode
the video.

Benefits:
When recording you DON'T have to stand and watch or wait while
recording the DV/Hi-8/VHS onto the dvd-recorder. Later, cut the
beginning or end of the video using the dvd-recorder. Define a playlist
(usually the whole video) and import it into Ulead. Re-import, create
chapters, menu's and burn.

Works for me. No re-rendering necessary unless making a custom video
with titles/overlays etc. But then that's done in DV mode from start to end.

Hope this saves you some time.

MD

[anniebrion]

I have tried both methods for DVD-V disks and I end up with a bunch of small clips (5 minutes or shorter). This is a real pain since I then need to edit each clip separately. Is there a way to tell UVS8 not to break up DVD-D into scenes?

Any tips would be appreciated!

Steve

I had this problem with my Sony DVD Recorder, the chapters were being set every 6 minutes and I was getting clicking noises in the audio at the chapter marks. The solution for me was to switch off the auto chapter creation on the DVD writer via its menu.

I now get a speperate video clip when I want one ie per program or a new clip after an AD break has been removed

I use DVD-RW discs formatted as DVD-VR and record with a max of 2 hrs per DVD, as this gives me 9800VBR at 720x576PAL with Dolby 2.0.

HTH

[Steve__A]

Thanks again for all of the suggestions! I've read the Toshiba manual twice and there doesn't seem to be a way to turn off the automatic chapters... The deck makes great recordings but there aren't a lot of settings that can be tweaked.

Although it seemed to work great, Womble MPEG-VCR left a bad glitch on an edit about 2/3rds through the project I was working on, putting the audio way out of sync- about 15 frames ahead of the video. I re-edited the file and it turned out fine so go figure...

I had always used DMF before to author and burn my projects but for this one I tried using UVS8, which is very similar to DMF3 but I couldn't see how to save the chapters, etc., while in the DVD authoring module (although when I reopened the project later the chapters were there!)

It did seem that UVS8 was very sluggish when I was adding chapter points... do you think that was because of the AC3 audio in the MPEG file? BTW I was using UVS because DMF3.0 seems to be very unstable when editing MPG files with AC3 audio... if I moved around too fast in the chapter module the program would stop responding and I would lose any changes I made since my last save.

It seems like Dolby Digital is a curse on any program that tries to handle it! Perhaps converting the audio to MPEG or LPCM would be the way to avoid all of these hassles. I had just tried a shareware program called DVD-to-MPEG which seemed to work okay but it looks like it would take about 5 hours to process a 2 hour video. Too slow to justify the $30 price tag!

Steve Ahola

[Steve__A]

I see that ULead has some tutorials on these issues:

http://www.ulead.com/learning/dmf.htm

In particular the Copy Disk feature converts a DVD-VR format disk into -V format that will work on most set-top DVD players.

Steve A.

[Steve__A]

The methods spelled out earlier in this thread did not work for a -V mode disk I made with 2 episodes broken up into 5 different files. Thinking that the disk might run out of time I stopped the recording during a few of the commercial breaks and then started it back up. DVD DeCrypter saw this as 5 seperate titles and would not join them.

I ended up using UVS8 to "import DVD" and then joined the pieces together by saving them to disk without doing any editing. The resulting file had a lot of sync problems so I used VideoReDo to clean it up a bit and edit out the commercials.

I guess the results of my recordings would have been better had I used the Record Pause button instead of stopping the recording... I did try pushing the regular Pause button but nothing happened!

Steve A.

[thecoalman]

Google DVD Decrypter (free), you should be able to rip any format with it. With out a doubt you can rip vobs, it will even rip single chapters and convert them to mpeg for you.

[maddrummer3301]

Steve,
I'm not so sure Ulead is the right product for what your doing.
You can't disable chaptering (same as the panasonic units).
Ulead imports Chapters or Scenes.
Many users have complained about that and want to import the whole
video back to the harddrive. Ulead must have a reason for doing this
because it's obvious they can write the code to do it.

On top of that the decoding of Dolby audio can be a problem with
Ulead. Encoding seems to work good. I'm sure they are working to
fix that.

Nero 6 Ultra Edition can import the full Mpeg2 files from the dvd
and merge them. Also has 2 pass variable encoding.

Hope this helps,

MD